Mukund
Welcome to the pedal My way podcast. This is Mukund and Rob. Hey Rob, how are you?

Rob
I’m doing well. How are you?

Mukund
Not bad, rob. I know last week we talked a little bit about stress and emotional support. A few topics we experienced ourselves and how we we dealt with them. So taking it a step further this week, still within the realms of stress and anxiety that we as men come across. Wanted to see if we are willing to talk a little bit about the financial stress we go through.

Rob
Yeah, that sounds like a great topic.

Mukund
So, to whoever is listening? We are referring to anything from not having enough money for rent, for example, or a more general anxiety for your financial independence. Anything from losing a job unforeseen to a backup plan, somebody doing kind of side hustle. This is all kind of a reasoning for stress and anxiety in today’s environment. At least we are looking at it from a mental health point of view for men. I’ll be I’ll be honest. So I have been in situations in my life where I was let go of let go from jobs coming out of nowhere to kind of a planned exit from a company, always the financial ramifications of this being the foremost in any of these. People who have gone through this know what I’m referring to just because it gives a hopeless situation where you don’t know where your financial future is going to lie. Right. There’s no kind of a magic answer other than you know having a Plan B at any particular time, but that might also be not be the magic bullet, for lack of a better word, just because of the way things turn out drab, any similar things from your background.

Rob
Yeah. So I guess if we’re talking about the mental health aspect of worrying about finances and really when we talk about worrying about finances, we’re talking about. The impact a damage to our finances has on our loved ones. We’re not really talking about. Money in the bank specifically, we’re talking about what happens if I don’t have enough money in the bank, what happens to our loved loved ones? Children, wife, husband. What happens in that situation and I think we we previously talked about motivation and I think part of the the challenge people have is they. Wrap up their ego in the idea of having wealth and when you lose a job, you lose a opportunity. You don’t do well in an interview. You have financial stress because of these things. It does impact your ego, right? It does. You know, I’ve been in position before where I was for a while. I was a. A freelance writer and I would have contracts with clients all across the globe. I would, you know, I would work on multiple accounts at once and you know you’d lose a big account. And the question is, what do you do when you lose 20 thirty 40% of your income? All of a sudden, there’s no there’s no rhyme or reason to it. There’s nothing you can do in terms of preparing for it. It happens all of a sudden. And what do you do? Part of the challenge is that oftentimes, as you’ve alluded to, there’s not really an action plan that you can have.

Mukund
Right.

Rob
Other than having savings, obviously other than having a spouse that works or having some other sort of financial resource behind you, it’s really with talking about deals. With recouping your sort of mental resources and going OK, I’ve had this blow. What do I do to get the workload back to get my brain into a place where I can recover my ego and go? OK, I’m gonna have to work harder to get more money, to improve my position. Through, you know, if it’s been damaged, even if it’s been damaged through no fault of my own what I did personally when I lost a big account was I reached out to my network. I reached out to my friends. I reached out to people in my industry and I said to myself, you know, this is a bad position, but it is not a failure. It is more a a thing that has happened to you. It is you might have made a mistake whether you did or not. It really doesn’t matter at this point. The thing has happened whether you have made a mistake. No, you you couldn’t beat yourself up about it. Or you can sort of go, OK, how do I recover from the financial impact of this and how do I communicate with my network about what I need in terms of? Resources now like how do I use my? You know whether it’s just intelligence qualifications, whatever we’re talking about in terms of work network people that we know, how do we communicate to them what we need now because people will want to help you. You can say look I’ve I’ve experienced this problem and not for me. What I did, I I remember specifically. Was about 2010. I had just started working on this account and I was probably working on it for three or four. Months and they had a budget. Issue and they weren’t working with freelancers anymore. They hired an in-house team and they wanted to work with them, which was fine. It was a business decision and these things happen. But it still affects you. It still affects your ego and the like. Did I? Did I not write well enough? Did I not communicate well enough, did I? Not was I not proactive enough in in my strategy of how I worked with this client, but what happens is you spend a day or two debating that that sort of feeling in your head, right. And I’m sure it’s the same with you when you’ve. Had losses at work or. Have a feeling.

Mukund
You try to kind of, you can try to rationalize it why they fired you kind of make it make sense, right?

Rob
Yeah, because that’s what our brains go to. What logic is there behind this decision and how can I correct this logic? How can I put a value on this logic in my brain so that I don’t make the mistake again or whatever I did that led? To this thing. That’s just how our brains are supposed to work with supposed to sort of go through something. If we make a mistake, figure out why, and what we can do to avoid that in the future. And oftentimes there is. Unfortunately, there’s nothing you can do about these things. These industries change, the economy does, does what it does based on, you know, people that are. Completely separate from us in financial institutions thousands of miles away, we can often can’t just qualify as these decisions based on our own work ethic and our own decisions at our computers or. Whether we are working at someone’s house, you make a mistake. It’s something often that is unavoidable. What I guess the question we ask is what strategies do we employ to overcome these periods of financial stress? What what is something that you’ve done Macon to sort of realign your thoughts after a financial impact like that?

Mukund
Definitely. Rob, I think what he said kind of resonates with me as well. So I have been let go from a few companies I have left. Like I mentioned, you know of my own accord from some companies. So mine is 2 options, right? When I was let go and when I left companies. So the easier one is when I left companies is I don’t leave. At least before I have a Plan B in place for whatever reason, right? So the company is not doing well. You know, that’s the best time to leave or I found a better opportunity. I left. So obviously I had that second job before I left the 1st. So at that point, the very minimal impact just because I know where my paycheck is coming from in the in the future, at least in the near future, the more complicated or more kind of impact was when I was let go from companies who I think or were in situation where I think was everything was going well, which a lot of people are. Have experience right? Things are going well. You’ve got your best. Performance reviews for the past year and then the next next week you are you are let go for for some reason, yeah. Whatever reason the company gives, it’s not under your control, right? So people are really ****** *** about that. You know, of course. Justified, right? They were kind of not misled, but kind of said one thing. But something else happened. That’s kind of a delicate situation to be in just because you know your next step. My go to outlet is my. Solution, or rather what my situation was at that couple of instances when I was let go. Was not momentarily, but rather historically. What I mean is I built up savings for that. I’m a big savings guy. I’m I don’t spend money as. You know, I only spend when it’s ultimately needed, right? I try to fix. I mean, I’m just, I mean this going into a financial kind of a thing, which I would which I think help which a lot of people are like me and. Like you trying to make sense of what’s happening and trying to get a control of the finances. Hopefully right? I fixed myself or on the House, right? Obviously I cannot do a kitchen remodel, but I can do like instead of calling somebody to do a, you know, replacing the vent fan, for example, which happened last week in my house, the bathroom. Defend did not work. All it cost was 20 bucks for me to order the parts, and I did the labor myself. Right? Right. So if people are willing and able to do that, that’s a good way to save some money. And this goes on to other things as well. If you are, again, you know, it all depends on your personal situation. I’m not kind of preaching what to do, it just kind of what I do. Another example is I change my own oil in the car so that saves a few dollars. My car and my wife’s car, so that’s two cars, you know, every couple of. Two to three months. Whatever mileage. So that saves that saves money here and there. So basic maintenance like that. And I also cut my own grass. So you know, I don’t have to. Pay the lawn guy you know, every week, every couple of weeks, which adds up with even if it’s like 20 bucks or cut or 30 bucks a cut, it adds up over a month. It’s like 100 hundred hundred dollars $120.00. So those things help me kind of, you know, save up here and there, which kind of adds up at the end. If you look at. It over a few months. So again, you know, this is not like financial course or financial independent course, but this helped me with the saving mentality and that has helped in times of need. Like when I lost my job. And the other thing which I don’t count on is my wifes also working. So we have that extra cushion extra buffer till I find my next job right when I was when I. Was laid off. It it it? Was not immediate. It’s not that I was laid off on a Friday and it got a job Monday. It took a couple of weeks, you know, a month Max was when I was between. On the grand scheme of things, it was nothing right, but there are. I’m, I’m sure there are people, individuals going through much worse situation other than falling back on their savings or on the financial help of their family members. I do not have much of A suggestion for an immediate solution. Right. But on a longer term, if people are willing and able to have like a side hustle, I think we also talked about it last week, why the people doing side hustles and that’s also a source of anxiety, which is which is very true and very relevant if that is possible. If you’re able to have at you know, at least you know 20 dollars, $30 coming in right, you know, I mean, there are hundreds of side hustles. People can. That can also help them in terms of fund foreseen financial difficulties, right? Losing a job is not the only one that, even though that’s the most common one medical emergency right that that can be a source of financial anxiety. You know, a loved one in the hospital is the last thing is the worst thing and. That can happen to anybody, and the last thing anybody is, they’ve been planning for just just by the nature of things, right. Nobody thinks about return and every day. Basis and and other things are your car breaking down right. You might have to get a new car, for example, right. Those those things happen. So cars are not cheap nowadays, especially after the pandemic. You know, what are you going to do? Right. And the interest rates are all so high. You know all these are anxiety using financial situations which. Again, we’re not coming from a solutions point of view, but rather kind of how to manage your mental health point of view at in the.

Rob
I think they comes back to the issue of control, right? What can you what’s within your control? You’re talking about? You know, we can’t control a medical emergency. We can’t control an economic thing that causes our job loss or something like that. But we can create multiple revenue streams, as you were talking about with side hustles.

Mukund
Right.

Rob
We can commit to savings. We can sort of reach out to our network and build an understanding of. What’s possible in terms of revenue generation to sort of prepare for a period of financial instability and that can be an important part of maintaining control over your finances is sort of preparing for sort of a financial loss, right?

Mukund
I mean, I’ve seen friends do this. I’ve seen family members do this. I drive a car I got in 2004 and my drive. My wife drives a car we bought in 2010. Mine is kind of the oldest in our fleet. My dad drives a car yard on the same time 2003, 2004. It’s like 20 years old. Yeah, I mean, I maintain it, I manage it. Even the smallest issue I have, I get it addressed because I believe that small attention to making sure something works will going to save you money in the long run. What I can suggest at least again coming from having been in a situation where I was scared where an ex paycheck was going to come from to kind of being a little more comfortable than where I am. If people can live within means. What I mean is, like I said, I’ve seen my friends do this. Some family members do. This is getting the newest car, the most expensive BMW, or the Mercedes. There’s nothing wrong with it as long as you’re able to afford it. Right. Your monthly payment of $500 a month. That’s what sticks in peoples minds saying, hey, it’s only 500. I know I’m making, I don’t know, $6000 a month, right? 500 is is nothing I can pay that. But at the end of the year, you’re paying 6000 for a car. Which you might not need if you if you think about it, do you really need like, you know, the latest BMW with the latest electronic gadgets, for example? I’m not saying just BMW, but any car right would you would. Couple of years old model not fit your purpose or fit the purpose right. I ask I. Ask the people I know about this and they’re like, well, no, I want to drive the latest one. You know, I can afford it. I don’t argue with them. I just try to understand their point of view, which is fine, right?

Rob
Yeah, but it comes down to you can afford it now if the interest rate changes, that $500 becomes 607 hundred, $800. Can you still afford it? Can you still maintain it? Can you still keep affording it in the future? And what does that look like? I think you and I are the same in terms of. I would rather have, you know, a lesser model car and I, you know, I drive like a 2012 Elantra, you know, it’s not a fancy car. It’s just an efficient car to get it from A to B. And it, you know, doesn’t break down very often. And it’s cheap to repair when it does. So I think you know if you. And plan ahead for those kind of things. I understand the idea of. I want to look good. I want my car to look good. I want to impress people with my vehicle. I want to have the newest thing. I completely understand that that’s sort of a a human idea of I want to look my best to everyone else, right? I think people. The future from that decision, right? They separate now. They now I look great right now. I look great to people, but they don’t think about five years time when they gonna still want the newest model. But now that Mercedes is five years older and doesn’t look, they still keep paying the $500. You know your bank is still expecting the $500.00, but you know you don’t have the newest model. Anymore, it’s now a 5 year old 6 year old cow, whatever it is.

Mukund
And also the way the automotive industry is going, I mean, I know we, you know, I’m just not singling out just this this one Ave. or financial kind of planning, but you know sticking with the cars for a minute, it’s. As cars get more complicated, you will have to spend more to maintain it. Especially nowadays with electronic parking, landmasses and whatnot, right? Those are good safety features, but what I’m saying is, even, you know, Bluetooth for example or seat warmers, you know, whatever, smallest electronic thing that they add, it’s only going to make maintaining more expensive. I’m coming from that point of view. So that’s something uh, I have experienced people undergo and in terms of financial difficulty, they’re like, well, I can’t afford this. Afford the car payment so that that is one example. And I know the list is, you know, it’s every day, some movie or something comes out with this. For a theme, but this is going to be a perennial problem just because the way society works, they want people to be seen in the flashiest things, which I understand some people. It’s important. Maybe their profession pays more importance to their appearance, but that is one aspect where you have financial control is living within your means. Unless your job or your livelihood depends on it, right, who cares what clothes you wear unless your job or your livelihood livelihood depends on it.

Rob
I’m the same way I see people. In you know 50-60 a $100,000 cars and I’m just, I don’t understand it. Like I don’t like I get the idea of like this that looks great but I don’t understand that decision that led to that point. And that’s not. A judgment call. It’s just me, logically. Going my brain does not cannot qualify this decision that this person has made. Like and believe me, I get all the psychological elements behind it. You know, you go to a bank and you know, they’ll say we’ll loan you this money for this car and you think I love this car. This is gonna make my life so much better. But then. As I said, like you, you don’t. You’re taught at least trained. Maybe is probably the better word not to think about what that looks like in a few years time.

Mukund
Right. So even when the car thing if more power to people who can offer these cars, right, they’re doing something right, which a lot of us can’t they keep some of my friends, they keep changing cars every two. Three. They are in a very good financial positions. There are people like that, right? I envy them. I personally can’t do this, but if they’re happy doing it, they can maintain their lifestyle, more power to them, right. I look. Up to them but. The question comes for the vast majority of us is if I can afford a $60,000 Range Rover or something 60,000. Is not 60. More than that, so even your Lexus or something and.

Rob
Right now I’m in. The civic is like $50,000.

Mukund
Exactly. And if I lose my job, you know, couple of months, especially now that in the US at least, where people are getting laid off left and right, it’s kind of a mixed market. Nobody knows what’s happening kind of a thing. If I lose my job, I’m still responsible for that car payment in addition to other expenses I have and maintaining a family, right? So if I don’t have that income to pay off that car at. A minimum what? It’s a it’s a drain on my finances for the for the short term, at least till I find another job and I don’t know how long that’s going to take. Right. Yeah. So it just kind of helps people to if they’re, if they’re an impulse buying kind of a thing, it helps to take a quick minute. To take a step back and see where they are financially, whether on the bigger scheme of things, if it makes sense and if they have any backups in case things don’t workout the way they want it to. That exceptions, exceptions to this of course, right if your car broke down, you need a new car. Of course you have to buy a new one. You know, I’m talking about people with. Spending money who are making these decisions? Would your money be better off at a bank earning so much interest that can help you in terms of financial need? Is is what I’m trying to kind of, you know, trying to think about this is just my approach. This might not suit anybody. You know, it’s coming from personal experience and my outlook in life in general.

Rob
Yeah, I was just going. To say I think what we’re talking about, really. Is sort of. We started off talking about what to do when you lose your job or lose a source of income that you weren’t. Prepared to lose. So I guess what the the major topic we’re sort of talking about is control like what is within your control and what? What decisions can you make to prepare for those moments where you lose control over something you lose control over a job or a medical thing happens?

Mukund
Going back to that question was, at least what I do is, you know, live within. My means I put more emphasis on savings and you know, long term kind of financial planning. For emergencies, have at least two to three months worth of cost of living. Yeah, that, you know in cash like in bank, so that you can cover the immediate costs. Hopefully your financial situation is resolved within those couple of months where you can go back to your previous lifestyle if not better. I think that’s a good plan to have. Yeah. And just as how you wake up and kind of you know, I mean, I do this, you know, check check your e-mail, check your the news for the day or your social media. You know one thing is to also check your banks. You know how much you have left. At least for me, I I do that once every couple of days just to kind of get myself prepared for the inevitable. So I tried to make sure that my account balances are rightly set. If the money is is put away. Properly, you know, I’m always looking for the high interest savings accounts for example. Again, this doesn’t solve people who are looking for a solution when they lose a job. But I’m trying to provide some thoughts on how they can prepare themselves. They lose a job. It will only happen if it’s a habit for you to, you know, check your finances in a, you know, having a real, realistic look at your finances. It again, it comes back to saving money and everything, which is kind of.

Rob
That, that, that, that goes back to the the topic of control, right? Like when you talk about looking at your checking account? If you have a checking account, obviously you control what happens to that money on a day-to-day basis. You can you can move it around relatively easily. It might take an hour or two depending on your bank or whatever, but you can move it from one account to the other.

Mukund
In the US it takes it takes 2 days to move between accounts.

Rob
Two days. Ohh you guys.

Mukund
Yeah. Two days. Yeah, yes, yeah.

Rob
Have a hundred time in Canada. It takes about an hour. Basically, what what we’re talking about is the idea of like having money that you control. Having the ability to pay your bills within a period of time where you know you get a phone bill, you get a whatever it is, you get a doctor’s bill. You’ll be able to pay it relatively easily your mortgage. So what people do, I think and the mistake a lot of people are making is that. They’re not. We’ve talked previously about this, but they’re not getting multiple sources of income and they’re not spreading out their money across various accounts that build revenue, generate revenue from the accounts, whether it’s a stock growth account or whether it’s, you know, a savings account with a, you know, savings account right now has a relatively high interest rate compared to what it had. Even a year ago, two years ago, you’re going to get so and and savings accounts, you can still move your money relatively easily. So it’s really about understanding what you.

Mukund
Right.

Rob
Can benefit from. With even within the next week or two, by moving your money to a place where you are not only in control of it still, but generating money that will further allow you to improve your situation, should you face the a job loss in the future and you know the stock market, obviously I’m not an expert in the stock market. I’m not a person that I do have an account, but I don’t regularly check it. I have brokerage accounts, but I don’t check them that often, but. The stock market, again is something outside of our control. It’s something that is relatively it’s run by it’s just run by algorithms right now it’s like it’s like just the you know, we. McCann. Did I talk regularly about SEO and about search engine optimization about Google? A lot of algorithms make a lot of decisions in our lives now and and that’s what’s happening. A lot of the time, and we’re sort of, I think there’s a movement right now and that physical fitness is a part of this to to sort of claw back a sense of control over our own lives, away from automation, robotics. Algorithms, things that are. Obviously not physical and not. Are outside of our immediate existence. There’s sort of this thing we know about, but we don’t really know what they do and why they do them. And I think a lot of people are worried about. Things that are outside of their control and outside of their ability to sort of do something about like the stock market, like the Googles algorithms. And they are trying to improve their situation. And the best way to do that for? My mind is to. This really talks about improving your own physical fitness like you have it within yourself to improve your own financial position by learning, by reading, by understanding what’s happening on a day-to-day basis in the financial markets and by making educated decisions. And of course, you still make mistakes. But that still allows you then a sense of logical control, sort of, and the ability to say to my. Pain. OK, I made a mistake, but I made an educated I I made a mistake based on my understanding of the situation that I made all the right decisions. I just had bad luck in this situation and I’ll talk about gambling, but I’m talking about you. You make a decision that just for whatever reason doesn’t turn out well. You can still do that, but you have to have the knowledge behind it. Make sure that you are reading and learning and listening from listening to experts and understanding what’s within your control. What.

Mukund
And also not only reading right talking to also people free resources, there’s Google how to do it. You know, financial planning, financial independence. I tried to go to bogleheads.com, which is kind of a forum for low cost investing or rather free investing through through the bobble head principle and. How to allocate money? We start the conversation about, you know, financial anxiety. I’m trying to provide long term solutions because financial independence and financial anxiety is not overnight, which by by just design so financial anxiety can be eased. By just long term planning, this is not. Solution for people looking for you know what do I do? You know, I lost my job. I have the bills to pay. Unfortunately, other than you borrowing short term at very high interest rate or going to family and friends for money. There’s no other solutions, at least what I can think of. My anxiety is more on whether my financial plans work long term, because that’s what I’ll be digging into. And in times of need, like losing a job and I’m not able to find a job for, I don’t know. Six months. What I’m going to do. I had to go back into my into my investments in savings, get money out of it, because that’s the only option I have. Right. And if I it might be. Good and bad, because at least I have that safety net, which I believe everybody should. Bad, because, I mean, I’m eating into my own savings, right? So it takes up so much time to kind of refill that bucket, for lack of a better, better description.

Rob
Yeah. You replenish your savings once you find more work and you. Yeah, absolutely.

Mukund
Exactly right. Right. At least this lets me be financially independent and not dependent on anybody else, which is what financial independence kind of means. And also the reason a lot of them start side hustles and everything is to be in the situation of financially be financially comfortable so that they’re able to tackle anything else. And also if your finances are good to attain the level of comfort to buy a flashy car, at which point if you’re making so much money, it doesn’t really matter.

Rob
Yes, yes.

Mukund
So again, hats off to the people who have accomplished that, who are successful at that. I am not there yet. So I have to be more on the conservative side in terms of my spending and my expectations. And from what I hear from others, you know, they could at least again talking to talking about my own family and friends. It will be much easier if they are a little more conservative than looking for the flashiest cars that they want to buy next next spring, so.

Rob
Do you? Do you think you’ll ever be? Even if you, you know. Let’s say you had a billion dollars. You, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, level wealthy. Do you? Do you think that your mindset will change and you’ll all of a sudden want the flashy car?

Mukund
If I were lucky enough to be a billionaire. I would still drive the same car. Maybe you know, maybe buy a new car and that’s going to be like one of the Japanese with very low maintenance, you know, high quality, kind of a thing. I’m not going to spend a BMW or a Ferrari or anything like that, even though those beautiful cars I I wouldn’t it just me. Would I go go out and spend extra vacant? No. Maybe I might take a vacation.

Rob
Yeah, but that.

Mukund
You know, be quick answer about it.

Rob
Right, right. But that’s that’s the mindset thing though, right? That’s a mindset thing rather than. It’s not your financial position that’s preventing you from doing that. It’s going. This doesn’t make it. I don’t. I don’t need the fancy car. I don’t. It doesn’t benefit me in the same way.

Mukund
I don’t find happiness in spending money. It doesn’t make me happy. Money solves a lot of people’s problems, including mine.

Rob
Right. He’ll he’ll give you. The ability to do to do the things that already matter to you and the things that matter to you aren’t aren’t going to change. With the money. Like the things that matter to you are going to be consistent.

Mukund
I might take a big cycling vacation. I might come visit you, Rob, you know? But. But but. But that’s about it, right? Knowing me again, nothing against people who want to. Of plans for, you know, high ticket items that is fine. Like I said, as long as you can live within your means, if you can expect if you can afford to spend $200,000 on the new, I don’t know Bentley SUV more, more, more power to you. Will I be able to spend it? Of course not. I don’t think it’s spend it in my lifetime. Yeah. So, yeah, again, going back to your thing about, you know, will a billion dollars, what will you do? Well, $999 million will go towards savings and I’ll try to do whatever I can with the $1,000,000 you know, and even that I’ll have like 90,900 thousand. Dollars leftover. You’ll have the.

Rob
Best weight training set in the world is what? You would have.

Mukund
I’ll be able to bench press what maybe 3. 100 pounds? What difference does does it mean?

Rob
Yeah. You, you, you would be the mountain. You could do whatever you wanted to do. At that point.

Mukund
So what? What? What did you do, Rob?

Rob
I would buy this goes back to we’re we’re going to get into a whole thing here. But I would. Buy match well, we had a built well, let’s say I had $10 billion pounds. I would buy Manchester United Football club. Because they are not being run very well right now, immediately. That’s my thought. I would run Manchester United Football Club, so currently it is owned by an American company and the They they already owned the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The the family is called the Glazers and Manchester United fans like myself do not like them very much. They are not great owners of the club. So I would I would waste my $10 billion on a football club because I am obsessed with football, is what I would do. That is my mindset is that I would. I would immediately do that and that’s what you know, it would make millions of fans of Manchester United very happy, so I would immediately make for people very happy but. It would throw my money at a sports team which is not great. I would not recommend that as a financial that was a financial advisor. I would say if you’ve had a billion dollars, do not put it towards a sports team because that is a mistake. You’ll immediately lose that money. That’s what I would do because I am obsessed with sports. So yeah, that’s immediately my thought. But I yeah, I’m the same with you. Like objects. We’re talking about things that matter, right? Like the idea of to me of like, a sports car again, no. No offense to anybody like sports cars. All that likes flashy clones as well.

Mukund
I love sports. Maybe I. Maybe it’s that good from a distance, you know not driving.

Rob
It. Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the way I drive, giving me a sports car would be a terrible idea. They might. They might give it to me for. A day and then take. It back immediately. So we’re talking about what I mean. This goes to the bigger idea of, like, what’s important, what makes you happy, what makes you enjoy life and things like that. And it gets away from. What we originally started talking about, which was. The fear of lack of control over our financial future, but they are kind of related because your mindset dictates what you fear. Do you fear losing? You know, the ability to buy a Porsche or do you fear like for me, the my big fear with financial things would be losing my ability to pay the mortgage. And pay, you know, big deals or whatever is most people’s bill. Biggest bill I know in the States and maybe medical bills but.

Mukund
Right, right.

Rob
Unfortunately, I don’t have to consider that. Luckily, in care that hopefully you guys get healthcare sorted out soon so that you have to think about that too. But the mortgage will be.

Mukund
Yeah, yeah.

Rob
The biggest thing.

Mukund
You’re you’re right. And talking about insurance, it’s either my wife’s company or my company. You know, we take turns depending on which one is better at that particular time of the year. We keep switching insurance. Yeah. So insurance is a big factor. So if one of us loses a job with insurance, we have to switch to the others insurance for the time being. And that’s always the cost of concern if given the option, my wife would have quit her job. I would have quit my job if the insurance were not tied to the company as any other American would do. Tying to the company would be one major kind of. Drawback to the Americans work. Situation. If it was, if it were like Canada and Europe where? The word. Socialism is being used. I’m not talking about socialism, but rather more free market health insurance or government funded health health insurance that would ease anxiety for a lot of us. You know, a lot of Americans, especially because you get, I know the, you know, there are drawbacks to both systems.

Rob
Social healthcare, yeah.

Mukund
You know, more like how we have here, how you have open Canada people in Europe. But the American way is not working. We know that, you know, we definitely know what is not working and there is a cause of anxiety. Low power is placed in the hands of very few that impacts the lives of millions of people. That is one of the major things happening now, especially with the with the Hollywood strike going on. Billion Dollar World Studios are fighting with salary of everyday workers, right? Yeah, so people have lost their houses, their mode of living. So that’s a very bad situation. And that also is a cause for anxiety which cause and union things going on. So all these things how workers are being affected, which indirectly. Directly ties to the salary financial anxiety. That’s kind of the big. Situation. Macroeconomic thing that’s going on, right. But as an individual, all we can do is just plan for that day, which hopefully doesn’t come. Yes, but without a plan, if the day does come, then it’s going to be very hard to manage it. I’m a type of person who. Prepares for the worst and hopes for the best.

Rob
Your your proactive steps that you’re taking give you control over a thing that someone else might not have control over you. You still maintain an element of control because you’ve thought about this ahead of time. As you were saying the ACTRA. Strike that’s happening and you know, people are bargaining with Netflix and trying to all these actors are out of work, not able to pay rent. That is something that. You know. We are going to see more and more of this. This is not something to me. It doesn’t seem like this is the this the the one thing, the one big strike that’s happening. We’re going to see teachers striking. Probably other union striking at some point. Inflation is out of control and wages are not matching inflation and any situation like that, you know, and again this gets back to as you were talking about like a macroeconomic. I’m not an economics expert, but I know a little bit about it. It gets back to these are things that are outside of our. Relative day-to-day control. So what? What are like striking as is, it is an idea of I am going to control the situation by taking away my labour. I’m going to take away my Labour to improve my position and the position of my teammates. My colleagues in the future and over the next decade or two. Right now what we’re seeing is. And we’re going to see this, I think over various industries, probably, you know, tech workers with AI coming, tech workers are going to be generally very affected developers, software people. UM. Are going to have faced the same problems and the idea is what do we do now to maintain our current position and what can we do ahead of time and as you were saying. This all comes back to proactive steps like obviously you can’t always save enough money to pay your rent or pay your mortgage ahead of time. But what you can do is 6 months beforehand a year beforehand. You can look at where you are and where you want to be and go. I have three or four months. If my Union strikes, or if I lose my job, I have three or four months where I can pay my bills, and that’s generally what you should look for. People recommend about a three month uh sort of pipeline of payments so that it gives you enough time to reestablish again your your. Current savings you find work and. Just having that I think will reduce your anxiety by even before. You lose a job. Just day-to-day, you’ll feel a lot better knowing that that is there. Even if you do, you don’t. Even if you keep your job, even if you’re you know you’re your wages are high, you’re. Colleagues are happy your work treats you well. Your health insurance is strong. Having that backup of of financial sort of. Foundation is something that will reduce your stress significantly.

Mukund
Definitely. And again not a solution for rather it’s not a solution for people who have lost jobs to get up on their feet immediately. This is more of a long term plan for people who have unfortunately been the victim of a job loss. If you don’t have a plan, or rather have a backup funding to support your lifestyle before you land your next gig. Is to go. Unfortunately, for loans, immediate loans or family and friends.

Rob
Yeah. I I I think most people would would feel badly about going through their family for financial support, especially as adults. You know, as we are, I think. The first thing that I would recommend and it’s benefited me, at least when I’ve gone through a period of self doubt or financial, uh, sort of stress is to just even have a conversation with a friend or family member and sort of say, you know, I’m feeling this way. Talk out what you’re feeling and talk out what happened, and often that process of talking to someone about your situation will allow you to sort of reconfigure your brain a little bit about and reestablish what what you really want to do about it. It’ll it’ll. You’ll rethink. It’s interesting. You know, we, we we see this happen a lot and it’s I think it’s happening more and more the benefits of talk therapy and we’ve seen this with like companies like better. Help are growing hugely online because I think people are realizing the benefits of even just having a conversation with someone, even if there’s a relative stranger just having a conversation and being able to talk out. I think we mentioned this in the last podcast when we were talking about fear and things.

Mukund
We did. We did, yeah.

Rob
Where it’s just. You, our brains need that outlet. Our brains need that outlet to be able. To sort. Of form, our thoughts into a coherent way and to our to establish what we think about a situation, because if we don’t do that and we we sort of Stew in our own ego and our own feelings. We that’s when fear and doubt and worry and anxiety grow. Right. If you do not let don’t give those things an outlet by having a conversation with someone. You can further damage your understanding of the situation and you can sort of. Make the same mistakes continually. Someone else may have gone through a similar thing too. You, you. You don’t really know. I think we’re taught not to talk about finances with our friends and family. We’re always taught to sort of figure it out. Like, just figure out your situation and you know we don’t talk about like, hey, did you pay your phone bill this. But like, you’re never gonna talk about that with your friends and family. But you you can reach out and say like, look, I’m having a tough time with this. I just lost the job. What do you think I should do? And they may be able to help you because they know you, they know your situation. They know what you’re good at. They they know what your goals are in life and they they can maybe. Give you some information that you previously did not have that can reframe what you’re going through in a way that might benefit you in the future.

Mukund
I openly talk about finances. I mean, I don’t go about asking how much you make or anything, but just in terms of, hey, you have you heard of this new kind of cell phone plan, you know, much cheaper, you know, my Internet plan. And hey, I was able to negotiate it down. If you have this provider, you know, you can talk, you can try talking to them. Small things help. Like I said, you don’t have to be your. Money saving or you know my financial decisions doesn’t have to always deal with 10s of thousands of dollars. But your small changes will lead to big savings after a period of time.

Rob
Yeah, you’re right.

Mukund
It’s my. It’s my strong belief. If you think that you don’t have so much money saved, if you take a look at it, if you have been diligently saving, if you look at it one fine day you might, you might surprise yourself. You may can give yourself, you can give yourself a pat on the back. Every everybody situation is different, but this one extra layer of evaluation will help everybody refocus and kind of restrategize this would be my overarching kind of message.

Rob
Yeah, 100%. It makes sense. Yeah, I think again, this is not a judgment on people that don’t have. That mindset of savings it is really just the idea of. This is what may benefit you and has benefited both myself and the kind in the in the past. You know, we have thought about these processes. We have figured out what works for us and you know you like I said, you may benefit from either speaking with people or looking at financial planning. Tools in the future and. To figure out. What that future looked like and figure out what it is that matters to you most. If, if, if, if you know like if the fancy car matters to you, great. Like, go for that. But plan for it like that, that that’s that’s absolutely fine. You know these these are situations we find ourselves and everyone has found themselves in this situation and there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s really how you deal with it and how you think about it.

Mukund
Exactly right, yes.

Rob
In the future, that’s what we’re talking about.

Mukund
Of course, Rob, you know in this I think we are trying to share what has worked for us and what we plan to do in a similar situation. And I hope this helps the people in a similar situation or also maybe a little late to the game, but there’s always time to catch up next week. Let’s try.

Rob
Yeah, I was thinking just while we were talking before, I was thinking. About fear of the. Future the future is something outside of finances, but the future in general is the cause of most people’s anxiety, and I think that would be a good thing to look at in general and and look at what we can do to. Sort of. Not overcome that fear, like, but you don’t need to fear it. And I think it would be good. To sort of. Think about that for the next episode.

Mukund
So it’s been nice talking to you, Rob. Nice. You know, nice to know. You know, we’ll be spending our new billion dollars on new Porsche and New Ferrari, so you know.

Rob
Yes, I will be the owner of Manchester United and I will see you drive by in your new Porsche.

Mukund
Definitely rob. So till I see you there, you know you have a nice, nice weekend and I’ll talk to you on the next one. I’ll see you then. Nice to see you. Thanks. Bye. Bye.