Anxiety About the Unknown

Mukund
Hello and welcome to pedalmyway podcast where we talk about anything related to cycling and fitness. I’m your host, Mukund Murali. If you’re a fan of the show, please remember to subscribe to this podcast and follow the website pedalmyway.com. Also follow @ pedalmyway on Instagram to let me know of your cycling and fitness goals.

Rob
Hi there. This is Rob. And Mukund is with me. How you doing?

Mukund
Doing good. How are you?

Rob
Good. This is the pedal by way podcast and we are here for another episode. Today. We’re going to talk about those feelings about future events and the anxiety behind them and. How do you deal with the worry that goes into our day-to-day existence and the steps that we take and the kind that I have taken to sort of overcome that sort of anxiety and and and and how we’ve worked that out for ourselves? I know for myself a lot of the. Day-to-day existence concerns are mostly related to. Meetings I have at work. Maybe I have a meeting coming up that I’m not looking forward to and I’m worried about the the the outcome of that meeting. The overarching reason behind sort of subject today is that I’ve been thinking about this a lot in the last few weeks in terms of a few. Of my colleagues and I have had this conversation at my work and I’ve had this feeling myself of people are getting. More stressed out, they’re getting more worried. They’re getting not only worried for last week, we talked a little bit about the the financial element of worry, but this. Is more about. The existential worry of what do I do in a certain situation and and sometimes what happens is, at least for me, my brain will usually tell me. The worst version of what is going to happen in any scenario, it could be the most basic. Event But when I for example when I walk my dog, my brain is preparing me for somebody to for some reason steal my dog and my dog to run away with that person and live a very happy existence outside of our family. And it’s sort of it’s it’s. I I joke. About that sometimes, but it’s sort of like. The way your brain tricks you into doing things that you have to do, you have to keep you have to keep the dog safe. You have to keep yourself safe. You have to do the. Right. Things. But you’re it’s that overwhelming sense of anxiety that. Forces you to to. Be careful, sometimes can overload your brain and. Cause you to. Overthink that certain things and then make you make mistakes based on that. I’m not sure whether you can relate to. This idea McCann.

Mukund
Yes, I can rob. In terms of what is what you are essentially saying is the fear of the unknown, right in any particular situation. So for me it was more of planning for the worst. I think of it as planning for the worst. At least your mind is trying to plan for the worst. For example, if I am going to the bank, you know, I’m just just a random example I’m like, oh, what if I forget my wallet? You know, what if I don’t have my license for to show as an ID? What am I?

Mukund
To do or whatever. I don’t have a debit card to make this particular transaction, you know? Hey, I forgot. I forgot about it. I mean, some random things which may not even be relevant to the situation. That kind of jumps in, or rather it used to jump in and kind of take me on a wild. Thought process right? Planning for the in how many situations can go wrong, right? Trying to kind of do a what if thousands of options there? That’s not sustainable if you are thinking about all these things for a simple run to the bank or to the grocery store to get something. You know how much can your brain and your mind put up with is the ultimate question. I thought I. Started talking to people when I went through this. From what I understand, at least it is a good mind game that we play with ourselves. Just so that we are prepared for that bad moment, right? If you don’t have this, you don’t have a plan. If something bad happens, this at least prepares you. For that. But at the same time, if you keep overloading your brain with the various options. Then it’s more of an analysis paralysis kind of a.

Rob
Right, right, right.

Mukund
So what my usual fear was, I mean, mostly it was work related. What if I didn’t, you know, contact this guy on time? You know, one of my customers. You know, what if he asks me this question? What if, you know, I was waiting on somebody else for this answer. And when I reached out to the somebody else, well, he had this bottleneck, you know, like so my mind just goes off on a on a tangent, I would not know what to do. And I would not have an answer to. My first question right. Yeah, this was at a point when I was. I was wasting so much time on this. This led to anxiety and I was having panic attack thinking like this. So what I what I I mean what I ended up doing was starting to talk to people to see, you know, what they do. How do you deal with these things? Right. And after talking to you, it looks like it’s more common than I. And I thought this was only me, and I was going. Through this by myself.

Rob
No, definitely not.

Mukund
And I think it kind of relates back to our conversation from a couple of weeks ago where men’s problems are more common than initially thought.

Rob
Right. Because we then we don’t talk to you.

Mukund
Exactly. We we yeah, we don’t we don’t. I mean other than you know other than you and me talking as friends and you know even me with other friends you know I have like like cycling buddies I go go cycling with even the friends I grew up with my childhood friend nobody talks about this right honestly. And I mean going off a tangent for a bit, that’s part of the reason I think and I started talking about this, paying attention to mental health. For guys because again, you know, I might be wrong in this, but I didn’t find that many avenues for even as an outlet, even if one other person is listening. They may at least feel that in hey, my problem is. Not as isolated or I’m not the only one with this problem kind of situation. It might put somebody’s mind at ease. That’s part of coping with with the situation like this.

Rob
Hopefully it does. Yeah, I mean absolutely.

Mukund
So I mean, so coming back to this, so you know it was, I mean it was good to hear that not good in the sense that you know. Have companionship in this. So when I talked to talking to the talking to the people I mentioned earlier, all they said was look and at the end of the day, how does it affect you? I was like, what do you mean? Well, I mean, you’re talking, do you think about these things? How does it affect you? Sometimes scared to even like talk to some people just because of the expectation of me, even though it might not be realistic. And he was like, well, I would like you to stop right there. It’s like, what do you mean, you know what the other guys expecting. So how can he prepare for thousands of variables? What say you are? He gave me an example. Right? So say you’re calling me to talk about customer ABC. What is it that you are afraid of? Well, I am afraid of this person at ABC. Might be looking for some information which I might not have. OK, number one really expected to have that information. I was like. Not in, not explicitly. It’s like, no, all these things have to be explicit for you to plan out if you’re not expressed. If you’re not expected to have that information, why are you getting stressed about it? Right. So like that, if you pinpoint each and every thought process that helps you break it down into manageable. Problems which you can easily find solutions for. Right. So for and my bank example, if I go into a bank without my license or something like that, what’s the worst that can happen? Well, I can’t do the transaction. I wanted to do. I can go back with the bank. License or the? Bitcoin or whatever, right? And even in my work example, if I am, if I don’t have the information that I need, what’s the worst that can happen? Well, I call the guy back again with the relevant information. So breaking it down into individual parts was what has helped me till now. And also refocusing on what is at hand and taking it at face value, I took everything personally. It was nothing that required an emotion to any transaction. If you don’t have the information, you just don’t have that information. There can be hundreds of reasons for that, but what you can learn out of it is OK, fine. You know, I don’t have this. Where can I go to get it? Well, I did. Try to get it from person ABC but I don’t have it. What else can I do? I can’t like conjure up some solutions to a problem.

Rob
100% and that’s that’s something I think a lot of people often don’t think about is the fact. That you’re taking this from your personal point of view, but that other person has their own entire world going on, and you are not the center of their universe. You are the center of your own universe. So your your viewpoint, although it’s like constant and it feels like there’s like a constant spotlight on you.

Mukund
100% right.

Rob
That spotlight is only only you. Anything you’re worried about. That’s you. I’m still trying to figure out myself. Is that for example, for a work thing, someone will won’t e-mail me back. For a few days, let’s say the window waits. I’ll I’ll send an e-mail on a Monday. It could be a client and they don’t e-mail back till Thursday. During that time I give them, you know, like a few hours. But if they haven’t e-mail that within a few hours, I immediately in my head, I’ve done something wrong. The e-mail didn’t make any sense. I’m rereading the e-mail. I’m rereading. Like what? Wait, what language should I use? Did I phrase things in the right? Did I send the wrong file like? But none of this like the client had obvious or even the coworker, whoever it is, they’ve probably got their own version of like 5000 things going.

Mukund
Think that as well. 100 yeah.

Rob
Non, your e-mail might be like 809 on their list of things to do. It doesn’t mean that that they don’t, that you’ve done anything. It just means that they will get to it when they get to it and it’s sort of like it’s a version of ego. It’s a version of like well, my thing is the most important thing in the world to me. But I don’t literally think that, but I think a part of my brain prioritizes it in that same way. So. So for me, that going back to what we talk about in terms of worrying about not everything is high priority, high threat. A day-to-day existence that is not based on like what is the next thing to worry about.

Mukund
At least in my life, the worst thing that can happen is me not having job, at least for most of the people. That is not a good situation to be in, but it can be. It could be much worse. What I mean by that.

Rob
Yeah, yeah.

Mukund
Is. Yeah, somebody’s life is taken. I think that those things are worse than losing a job. Again, it all depends on the on the situation, but that’s how I try to cope with the stress that is that I’m presented with. The other thing I want to mention was for your e-mail example, you wrote an e-mail your customer didn’t didn’t respond for a couple of days. I used to be in your situation. But of late I’ve tried to take it as at face value, meaning hey, I wrote the guy the e-mail. What do you want me to do? I mean, all I can do is wait. What else am I expected to do? I think it’s it’s. Part of our self perceived. Expectation from others. This is how we think others expect us to react is what is keeping a lot of us on on our toes. What I mean is for the e-mail example. You would at the back of mine you’d be like, shoot. My boss might ask me how that customer responded. I don’t have a response. What am I gonna do? That’s what you expect your boss to ask you. That’s that’s against self generated right expectation from others.

Rob
And yeah, and like some customers, some colleagues are just going to be difficult to deal with and that there is also the idea of, like preparing yourself for handling difficult people. We’re not used to conflict. People are used to manners and politeness and sort of like people being nice generally. But then. You know, we’re confronted with someone that is not so nice, whether it’s at work or in our personal lives, and then we have to sort of figure out like, oh, we’ve got to change our way of thinking a little bit, our viewpoint and. I think part of why I sort of get into that mindset is. I’m preparing myself to deal with someone that is gonna be rude or nasty or whatever, because I’m not. That’s not me. On a day-to-day, but like it takes work for me to get there like to. To to sort. Of react that. Like I’m a pretty nice guy generally, but like it takes work to build up to like responding to people that are going to be. And I have a problem. So it’s sort. Of like. I think part. Of it, for me at least, is my brain. Preparing me for the energy that will be required to deal with like a negative situation. Maybe there’s no energy. Maybe it’s like this person’s just not great. I don’t. I don’t have to deal with them. Great. If your boss is like if your boss agrees with you, that’s fantastic. Your boss agrees with you and says, oh, yeah, this this is a terrible customer and you’re, you know. Like like if your boss handles it, that’s fine, but sometimes your boss doesn’t necessarily feel the same way, so you kind of. Have to sort of. Sum up the energy itself and sort of try to figure out how to communicate with someone that is quite difficult to communicate with. So I’m sort of. Always aware of that possibility too.

Mukund
Actually, you brought up a good point. I am a nice guy. I want to make people happy. Most of us we don’t want trouble or we don’t cause trouble. We just working with what we have. Have making the best out of what we are given. And trying to do the best possible clear communication is key to our within quote survival, right. So in this situation, we don’t actively go around causing, you know, causing chaos or rocking the boat. But at the same time. Most of us are not being realistic in the expectations point of view. What I just mentioned, right, so which is which which leads to stress and anxiety at work as. So what what I mean is, for your example of you’re trying to be nice. You know, you don’t actually go out of the way to do anything bad and even you waiting for a response. You are. You are just scared that you know you wrote something wrong to the customer mistook or something like that. Right. So again. It’s not a, you know, it’s not a big, big revelation or anything, but just trying to reassess what you are dealing with helps in a. Lot of helps. A lot of people. Look at it in a different light. What I mean is, if you write an e-mail to a customer, for example. That’s the best you can do. If you hit all the facts, you know being fact, you know, being on topic, being fact full, getting the information that’s possible, that’s all you can do. He or she getting back to you. It’s not really something you can do. So another thing that I that that I have felt with is meeting people in or meeting. Strangers, especially in a professional setting, right, so you will be going to these meet ups. You’ll be going to trade shows conventions where you meet with others. What used to happen to me was at least I used to think, hey, what are they going to think of me as you know, I mean, I’m in sales and business development. They’re gonna be like, hey, how much have I sold? What expense do I have in a particular domain? Will they think my experience is not good enough for me to talk to them, kind of reevaluate my within what’s qualifications, right. Did I pass muster in this industry to even be talking to a particular person? For example, right? What again, you know, talking to a lot of people, you know, in this, especially sales guys hardened, you know, industry veterans.

Mukund
They said that nobody cares about you as much as you, meaning everybody’s happy to talk to other people if you if if you add something of value. Sales, one of the most hardest profession because the people have to like you to like what you’re selling. That’s the first step. So if you’re a decent person, you know, talking, making sense, you know, adding value to what they are saying. Nobody is not going to want to talk to you. Right. So that also kind of reset my expectations. And now I am a little more confident in talking to people.

Rob
100%.

Mukund
Because I only approach people who I think I can add value to. I just don’t go on ************ people just because you know I’m selling services that every everybody’s my customer. That’s the wrong attitude to have, right? So unless you connect at a personal level, it’s not going to work.

Mukund
For long term, because nobody wants to keep buying from a sales guy, but rather buy from a friend, right? If you sell me something, for example, I will take a second look at it. Even if I. Don’t want it right, but if I’m somebody else walking, you know, walking off the street and coming to meet you, be like, hey, who are you and why? I don’t even know you. Kind of a thing, right? Yeah, I know this might not be an answer to the question you posed in terms of, you know, the future of unknown, but this is an unknown, which I faced strangers and unknown person. What is the best way to approach that person? Just my thoughts and you know if somebody is thinking about it in terms of social circles, it might not be a professional setting. Maybe even get together with friends and family if you have. If you are a stranger or if you’re meeting a new person in that circle, you know. So that’s something that might be.

Rob
100% like that that the idea of I think that was put what you perfectly just said is that listen to what other people are telling you listen to like you have first the people around you, friends, family, colleagues that you admire, they they will tell you exactly what you said. Nobody else is going to care. About what you’re saying. As much as you do and nobody else is going to be able to change your own mindset about how you feel about yourself and about what you’re. OK. The It’s good to be. It’s not good to be anxious, but it’s good to be have that nervous feeling of. I want to do well for this thing. If it’s a job thing, if it’s a, you know, a romantic thing, you’re going on a date. It’s good to have that energy going in to go. I’m nervous to do well. I want to do well for me and for, you know if. I’m going on a date with a guy or. Girl, I’m going out to an interview. I want to do well to impress this person or these people. That that. Energy is great and I think what we were talking about before, the fear of the the the thing that we were going to, that’s where that comes from too, is that energy sort of like switches. It switches between from excitement all the thing to like fear of like all all the our brain gets involved in all the different permutations and. Things that can happen, and you’re absolutely right, you should. You should speak to people around you because they are going through. The same they have certainly have gone through something similar. As you know, you and I have just discovered. I I was just thinking about when you were talking about sales meetings when I first had. Interviews. I mean, I’m a digital marketer. I I work for digital marketing company and when I first started interviewing with, with. Companies that I wanted to work. For I I knew that I. Knew what I was doing. There are no there are no. Qualifications in digital marketing. Really, it’s sort of like it’s the Wild West in terms of qualifications that Google, Google has qualifications, sales force has qualifications like you know in sales and Google has qualifications in SEO and the digital market is. Sort of like you have to prove that. You have to have results you have. To have you have to know what you’re talking about. So basically your interview is everything. It’s not like you can show like just your resume. I went to this school because there are no university courses in a lot of the digital marketing things that are happening. So a lot of pressure is on that meeting with the the company you’re going to, you’re going to work for potentially. So I went to what I before I started working with the company I work with now. I went to at least two or three interviews where I just blew the interview because I talked the ear off the person that. I I was interviewed with and they they took that as a like a. Not that I was lying, but that I. Was sort of like. Trying to oversell my qualifications, trying to sort of like like that when a person speaks quickly and speaks a lot about what they’re trying, you’re trying to cover up something because you, you know. You’re you’re speaking about things in a way that is overly elaborate or is seems confusing to the other person. That is another thing. Yeah, I think. Often happens when you get nervous or get worried about a thing. It’s like. Nervous energy can translate into anxiety, and it can impact your how you handle that event like you were talking about sales events. This for me it was interviews. It was. I would go into an interview and. You know, a question might be like, hey, how was your day and be like, oh, great. And then I would, I would go into, like, 15 things about digital marketing. They they didn’t even ask me or like, I’m showing them charts. Like, I’m like, I don’t know, like, I’m some sort of like Rain Man genius and SEO. Like, they they don’t care. They just did not care. They wanted to like. Chat with me. Have a conversation. See who I was and see whether I might be a good fit for their team. And then you know eventually, like, you know, get. Into all the. The work stuff, but because I was so. Prepared for all the negative things that they could possibly think about me, I just threw it all at them immediately and that, you know, backfired spectacularly a couple of times, cause it’s just it’s overbearing for someone to see that and you. You’d it’s way too much for someone to sort of like, go into a conversation and then hear all this stuff that they didn’t need to hear. It’s way too much information and a couple of times I got a second chance and a second interview and you know, for me myself, I’m usually better like three or four times after you meet me, because the first time is. I’m nervous and can be too much, so it’s sort of like.

Mukund
So the interviews you, you did not get through, did they give you this as the feedback or was it your assumption that you talked a lot?

Rob
Umm.. one did give the feedback of there was too much. I thought it was pretty funny, I said, they said I presented too much data to them. And I I was sort of like I sort of laughed to myself like, well, what, what kind of digital marketing company isn’t using data in their day-to-day, but like what they meant is like, we we just woke up and you just gave us, like, a 15 page presentation about whatever it was I was talking about. They had. They had. They were just not prepared for the level of intensity that I gave them and that, like I said, that came from. Just overly preparing for the worst possible reaction so that I was giving them anything so that they couldn’t possibly react negatively. They they they had to think I was the best possible person to the cause, like all the all this information was proven that I was this amazing person but. They didn’t need that. They just wanted to meet me. And are you a person? Are you a good human? Would you be a good fit with our organization and then, you know, we’ll train you to do the rest. But like I was saying. Ohh, I’ll change everything and I’ll do all this. And they. You know, I I was like my. Like the the CEO was like, oh, this is way too much. What are you talking about? Why are you? You know, I get, yeah. So carry on.

Mukund
See my my my take on interviews is at least personal experiences. Be yourself if you if they like you, I mean you’re in. If they don’t like you, most probably don’t have to see them. Ever again. So you’re not going to lose anything by being yourself. So because if you’re not yourself in interview, then you’re putting up a false front. And you cannot sustain the false strength for long, so you or yourself, when you presented all the data right for this particular company at least. And if they didn’t like it because of that, well, it’s it’s too bad because that’s who you are. You deal with data, you are a data guy and the domain needs a. Lot of data from what it looks like. Again, you know that’s what I would take away from. That, rather than blaming yourself. Because you’re being yourself in that interview.

Rob
Luckily, I found I had. I think that was like. Two inches before I I found the company that I’ve been working with now for. A couple of years, three years now. Yeah, luckily I found a you know that that fit where it was sort of like they were able to say to me we appreciate the data, but also calm your **** like calm down. Like, just relax a.

Mukund
Good, good. At least it only that.

Rob
Little bit so that we can all cause also along with all that. Is you’ve got to bring people in, right? You’ve got to sort of like you can’t just keep throwing numbers and stats and things that you’ve gotta also have a conversation and say, what does this mean and why? And what is the and have questions. And I think sometimes what maybe other people do, but certainly myself is I go so far to prove myself that I don’t bring other people in for the journey of like, this is what it means. And this is what your part can. Be in that for me, it’s just like I will do this. I will take care of that. I will get this done. And then it’s like. You don’t leave. Room for other people to sort of go like, oh, this is what we could also improve.

Mukund
Right, right.

Rob
So yeah, I was very fortunate that the company have I’m working with now is was sort of like amenable to my craziness and also sort of like had their own element of that and was able to sort of work with that. And I think what yes, as you were talking about with the the sales team is sort of like. Finding that group of people that sort of fits with you, they’re not gonna tell you you’re wrong. Your energy is not wrong, but they’re gonna say this is the right way to frame. What your best parts? Of what your energy is, and this is. The way it’s like. Allocate that energy in the most efficient way possible for you.

Mukund
Going back to the work example we started, we started the conversation with. I’m not going to overexert myself if that’s something not in my control. I’m not going to anticipate his response unless he tells me how he wants to move. I cannot prove a plan for 100 different options, and I’m only going to move as fast as I’m able to. I cannot run a marathon if I’m only given a A10 square foot space. You know there’s not much I can do in this space. Kind of a thing. So that realization has really kind of calmed me down and anxiety has come down a lot. Just because I know how to respond and I know the worst and the best that can happen. And not anything other than that, right? So there’s only there’s only certain way a thing can go stay the same, improve or go go negative. I’ll plan for the negatives. Right. That’s what I think. We started this conversation with, but I cannot plan for thousand options of the negative. Maybe one or two. It is realistic that can happen. That’s should be a normal planning process, yes. But if it’s more than that, then you know, then you might have to or or. So who is is listening to them might have to kind of reevaluate the situation to be more realistic. And there will always be unknowns there in any situation. I might not be there tomorrow. That’s an unknown. But there’s only so much I can do for to. Plan for that, yeah. And that’s the worse I think can happen. But after that happens, you don’t have to worry. About it, because you’re not there anymore, right? So. All good. Again, not to not make light of the situation, but again, if life is not a circus, then then you know, then you’re taking it too seriously, right? It you should have fun while going through it. Death is a part of.

Rob
100%.

Mukund
Plan for it, but other than that you can’t do anything to stop it. You think that’s my take at least?

Rob
100% no. Yeah, you’re. Absolutely right, like I. This is this. Is the sort of the reason why I get more annoyed with that side of myself in terms of like the overly stressful thinking is that I like to have fun. Generally I like to enjoy things but. When that part of your brain is switched on when you’re worried like it’s very difficult to enjoy anything, right, you can’t. I so sometimes I. Like there are weeks when I’m working where I don’t enjoy what I’m doing, which I don’t like. I like to enjoy my work. I like to enjoy day-to-day existence anyway, everything but work. I like to be able to enjoy it and sort of like because I think that’s where you do your best work is when you enjoy it and you have fun and you get to use your brain in creative ways. That you know, you wouldn’t necessarily ordinarily do it. But when you have that worry, it stops that part of your brain from creating things. And because you’re using all the creative part of your brain to. Create the worst scenario so you’re not creating fun and excitement and all those other good emotions. So yeah, so I think you’re absolutely right. Like you have to have fun. You have like having fun. Could be. Like you could replace that anxiousness with sort of like having fun and enjoying yourself at work and trying to find more ways to enjoy yourself. And maybe by doing that you might prevent some sort of negative feedback loop.

Mukund
The feeling of anxiety and feeling of uncertainty. Is that only because we we make it so yeah, it’s all in. It’s all from our expectations. So what? At least you know one not message at least one thing that can help that I want. To share is. Especially when it doesn’t involve your personal life or anything that you can manage to be without. Take it at face value. Right. So if somebody says contact me on the 20th, contact them on the 20th. There’s nothing wrong with that. But if something more personal is happening, then you might you know the situation. Whatever situation needs, you might have to react accordingly. That has been my approach, or at least that was what I tried to follow. That has kind of helped me with my anxiety. And also, if you’re reduced anxiety, your performance will be better. And what we’re trying. To do. Yeah, so. You know, that’s something that I would like to share in terms of an overarching message or arching kind of, you know, whatever. It can help people with.

Rob
Something I’m trying to work towards myself is the sort. Of like. If I’m, if I, my worry is about a certain person or a certain thing that I’m doing is to just approach that person and. Not you don’t have to necessarily be direct with a concern that you have with them, or you can approach it in a certain way where you get the information you want without dealing with the the negative part of it. For example, if you you have a meeting coming up with someone and you’re worried about how they’re going to feel about a certain topic. Like, just ask them about that topic in general. Like what? What kind of things are they feeling right now? What? What do you think we should do with this? Like, try this sort of like, have a conversation with someone rather than allowing the allowing your brain to make up their response like they they have a feeling they they have that information. You should try proactively remove doubt and fear. If I do the ask. If I ask for the information they are not. I’m not waiting for them like I am reaching out to them and saying what do you think about this? Like what is this like rather than waiting for them saying this is what I think is wrong and. Trying to sort of flip the energy around like as we were talking about, like using nervous energy to be excited about something. Using worried energy to give voice to that worry so that you’re not keeping it within you and using it to affect sleep, for eating diet. You know, whatever, all the things that our mental health can impact. What is the worst that can have? Might it might for me it might just be writing it down. What am I worried about? What am I? What reaction? As you. I think you mentioned this before. What reaction are you worried about? And. Why and what is that? So yeah.

Mukund
So you yeah. What is your manufactured expectation from others? Right. So that is manufactured because that’s something you are trying to think about what your boss or your, you know, your friends might expect you to react. Yeah, just just remove that and just have have a one way direction at any particular time. Yeah, I think the problem is we try to be supersonic about it being like immediately you need to have a response, which I was under the under that impression. So now I’m taking my time. That has kind of eased me a lot in terms of. OK. And again, clear communication goes a long way because a lot of miscommunications can happen. So try to be emotion neutral. Because I just list the facts, the bullet points so that also helps a lot to kind of, you know, include what you’re trying to. Say in terms of communication.

Rob
That’s great, yeah.

Mukund
This week we were trying to talk about fear of uncertainty, fear of the unknowns, fear of the future. We try to cover what our experience has been. We’ll see how this takes next week.

Rob
Yeah, I mean, next week we. Can sort of like. Look at the the negative patterns that we can look at and what those negative patterns. Can do in terms of like your day-to-day life, how they affect your mental health and diet and things like that, that that can be certain. Part of the fear of fear of the unknown or the fear of the future. You can sort of.

Mukund
Of course, yeah, yeah.

Rob
See how that affects the sort of Physiology, Physiology, and sort of like the psychology. All those elements. So yeah, that might be something we could look at next week, but I think it’s been it’s been a good chat today. I think hopefully enlightening chat for some people to see that. This is not an uncommon feeling and it’s not a unique feeling to every individual. It’s sort of. We’ve all had that experience and for me, I’ve certainly learned from you today, like if you tip tips that I can use day-to-day and and and long term work through these feelings and sort of like improve upon my both.

Mukund
Yeah, me too.

Rob
Certainly improve upon my reaction to negative things and how I can sort of control keep things under my control.

Mukund
Of course, Rob, it was great talking to you as well. Till next time you have a you have a good weekend and talk to you soon.

Rob
You too great talking to you. Soon. Bye. Bye, Mukund.