Mukund
Hello and welcome to the Pedal My Way podcast, where we talk about anything related to cycling and fitness. I’m your host, Mukund Murali. If you’re a fan of the show, please remember to subscribe to this podcast and follow the website pedalmyway.com. Also follow @pedalmyway on Instagram to let me know of your cycling and fitness goals.

Rob
Hey Mukund, how are you?

Mukund
Hi, rob. How are you? Good afternoon.

Rob
I’m doing pretty well, man. I’m doing pretty well today. I thought we’d talk about identity and how the how we think of ourselves and what that plays into, how we then act with the interact with the world around us. I think a lot of people as individuals are confused. About how they think about themselves. And that confusion can lead to various sort of knock on effects on their mental health. So I think identity is a good subject for today, for our conversation. What? Do you think?

Mukund
Definitely, Rob. Actually, this sounds like a very interesting topic. When you say identity, what are you referring to?

Rob
Sure. Uh. So for me, uh, in an individual’s identity is something that ties into the way they’ve grown up. The way that they behave around other people, how they think about themselves as a personality, whether they think they’re funny, intelligent, caring, which of those adjectives do you think about when you think about yourself and how does that play into the impact that you have on the? World around you. Sometimes I think a lot of people’s mental health struggles comes into or is the result of their identity not matching their actions. They see their actions have a negative effect on other people, or you know whether it’s their work is not fulfilling or it’s not. Necessarily having a positive impact, say they work for a company that has a negative impact on the world around them, and that then plays into their own idea of being a good, helpful, socially conscious person. I found when I speak to my friends and my family about some of their mental health. Concerns is that the the overarching picture is that the actions that they’re taking don’t quite match with their idea of themselves. The the idea of identity and about. Who we are as people is fundamental, I think, to every action that we have and take, it is so damaging when you see that you are trying to have a positive impact on the world around you and then that becomes a negative impact. I think a lot of the challenges that people have. Due to the. Differences in their intention and the result that they have, or the results that they’re seeing from their actions, a lot of people that I speak to when they say you know, they talk about things like biases, they have a certain bias about whether it’s politically or whether it’s about certain people. Whatever bias they have, but again, that bias comes from their own identity, right? It comes from you’re brought up in a certain way. Your parents taught you a certain thing. We did not create ourselves as we were children. We we, you know, our parents decided, you know where we went to school and that impacts, you know, what teachers you have at school obviously. And what those teachers tell you. So all these biases are built in and I think a lot of the. Time when people have. A downturn in their life, whether it’s relationships or, you know, a work problem, or they just don’t feel energetic, they don’t feel positive about themselves or at life in general. The major difference for them? And I’m speaking obviously in generalities. But from speaking to people. The major challenge that people have is that. They don’t think of that, that action that they’re taking, they don’t think of that as themselves. They don’t think of that as like I I. This is not who I am. So I think identity is a a crucial element of mental health and I think. People can become. Lost in that that they, they, they become so focused on whether it’s work or whether it’s, you know, whatever, making money in general social activities. You know you’re you’re around friends all the time you can become lost in who you are and who you want to be. And I think those sort of. Mental health issues can stem from not being able to. You identify yourself after a certain amount of time.

Mukund
So is it more as you thinking of yourself as being a certain person by a personality or? Or as a person with a specific ability for your professional life. For example, do you think of yourself as being a funny person that is the center of attention or center of any group? Or is that more as an engineer or, you know, or technically focused person at work? I mean, what is, what do you define as?

Rob
Right. So.

Mukund
Identity for that person.

Rob
Yeah. And all those things tie into identity, don’t they? You brought up a good point about education, right? If you’re an engineer and you’ve been through. You know, 50 years of school, like high school, then university, and then, you know, you’ve done your post honors. Yeah. You’ve done some sort of Post University school to be an engineer or a doctor or lawyer. Your identity is your career, your identity. You’ve spent that over a decade.

Mukund
PhD or something, right?

Rob
Becoming that thing, you are an engineer or a doctor or a lawyer. When something stops you from achieving what you want in your career after all that time, that has to be. And again, I’m not. I don’t have that level of schooling, but I would imagine that kind of impact changes who you are. It changes you fundamentally because you you’re you’re not. If you’re tied into. I’m a doctor or a lawyer. I’m a high achieving person. And then you have a career setback that just tears at you the the identity you built for yourself.

Mukund
Actually, you bring up a very good point, so I can relate to this personally. I’m an engineer by training electrical engineering worked at one of the top communications company when I graduated, but that stopped, or rather that changed 8-9 years after I graduated. I shifted away from this engineering company to more of a business slash client engagement role and a different domain. The identity of me being an engineer did not go away just because I did not let it go away.

Rob
OK.

Mukund
Again, I can only talk about my. My experience is that being an engineer specifically has helped me navigate the different fields I have been in. Just because of the technical background and the strong logical foundation that was built as part of my engineering education. So that has helped me a lot in the subsequent industries that I’ve been in and the various jobs in various positions that I’ve held. I cannot talk to any other profession or any other person that has been my experience, and even now I do do engineering things like think around with stuff at home, you know, play around with computers, all those things which I was doing when I was an engineer. Professionally and not engineer. But my thinking wise I cannot not be an engineer if that makes.

Rob
Sense. Yeah, right, that, that’s that’s who you are, that’s fundamentally. Where you are.

Mukund
Again, that is me and I think that goes towards your identity topic that you started with, right? That has been my experience till now.

Rob
Of course, yeah. Yeah. So that’s that’s who you think of yourself as an engineer, right? Right. So I think there there must be some sort of disconnect for a lot of people when they don’t have that success that they thought they were going to be like. You’re an engineer, but and you know that you can do these things.

Mukund
Correct, you’re. Yes, yes.

Rob
I think a lot of the challenge people have is that they face a roadblock in their career or even if they think of themselves as like. A A romantic person and a dating life isn’t going well. That is where there’s like a a disconnect between who they are and their position in life and their success in various areas. And I’ve seen this personally with people that you know. It happens a lot when people start getting older and they realize that perhaps a career path or an opportunity or relationship is not going to go in the way that they thought it was gonna go. And they’ve tied themselves to a person or a job or a whatever it is, they’ve tied their identity to this thing that they’re in and that thing stops. This relationship will get fired or whatever that thing stops and then. All of a sudden you’re trying to figure out who you are in your 40s, fifties, whatever it is, and that that changes, right? That’s not your identity, is not a static thing. It’s sort of always evolving and always moving. So you have to figure, I think we have to sort of figure out who we are at almost day-to-day basis because it always changes.

Mukund
What has helped me from an identity point of view is to identify or rather answer this question for yourself. What are you not good at? From a professional point of view, I am in no way a good programmer, but I do play with codes, pseudo codes. I copy codes off Internet. You know there are lots of databases so you know online that I make use of for my own projects or whatnot. I’m not an artist so identifying what. I am not goes a long way in helping you identify. Who you are. Some of my friends have switched majors in college. Some of them have started off as engineers. Now they are business majors. For example, some entered as business majors. They found inclination towards more technical classes and they graduated with me as engineers. And, you know and anybody in between. They have gone to arts, come from. Parts in a completely different fields. It’s good to have had this realization earlier in life, so that you just don’t waste the time. Figuring out who you are. I mean, let me correct that. It’s not a waste of time. It’s not wrong, you know. You know, you you did not make a mistake trying to figure out what you want to do, right? It most of us go through that. But what really helps is to take a step back and say what you don’t want to do or what you do not feel like doing. That goes a long way in establishing who you are. I did not want to spend, I mean great respect to doctors, but I personally did not have it in me. For two decades of education before I landed my first job, or the strenuous hours they work, or the responsibility for life. That’s the bigger theme of a doc, right? Somebody who saves lives. That’s the overarching understanding of what the person entails. I personally did not want the responsibility and also the amount of time spent to be a doctor. But. I respect the hell. Out of doctors, right, of course. So that helped me figure out what I want to do. Do I want to be a business major when I? When I was in college? No. Maybe I should have just given how much money there is in finance. I should have. But again, you know, it is. Hindsight is always to always. 2020. So those things will help you realize who you are and what your identity could be once you come to this realization. Right, I think.

Rob
There a point in your life where you did care about what people thought and did. You did anything change in that respect?

Mukund
Yes, I did. In my professional career, I was at a peer. Now that I think back there was a period when I was kind of, you know, looking for validation from my superiors. Now that I think back I should not have done that. Because that put a lot of stress on myself to. Mold myself in a way. That would have removed my identity, right? If you are going for validation from somebody, you’re looking for validation or expectation from that person’s point of view, which. Mostly it’s not what you value yourself to be.

Rob
Right. It’s their identity you’re trying to.

Mukund
Exactly 100% yes. So it took me a while to understand this.

Rob
Fit in your.

Mukund
And kind of refocus on who I am. And now I’m. I don’t. I don’t really. I’m not really afraid of saying who I am or displaying what my strengths and weaknesses are. I don’t have to go through the stress of fulfilling somebody elses within quotes expectation of me. Because number one, it might not exist and #2 even if it exists, it’s not something that you want to support just because that is not who you are.

Rob
Right. The idea of what someone thinks of you as. Can sort of impede your own identity of yourself? Is it is a great point because we. All sort of. We change how we act around certain people and that is our own identity. Like we, we are different among our friends than we are with our family, maybe with different, with different groups of friends even. But the the challenge then becomes you sort of lose yourself in. In that, that group of people and you’re conforming to other people’s ideas of who you are. And a lot of the time, I’ve I’ve had this with my friends, where I try to, like, be funny or crack jokes or whatever. And I think a lot of some people might think of me as like a quiet person or a person who’s not opinionated. So when I do have an opinion. And it’s a strong opinion. People are like, shocked and they’re confused as to why, but I think a lot of that comes from people don’t always have the time to get to know who you are. So it’s very easy to sort of pigeonhole people and say you are this kind of person. Let’s let’s put you over here. You’re in this group. This is who you are. But. And I’ve done this myself with people where. I thought of them one way and then had a deeper conversation with them about various things, various things. In life, where I find out, like, wow, they are far more conversant, intelligent, whatever it is than I thought they were, I’ve just decided for myself. I took one look at them and decided they were this kind of person, which is, you know, is never a great way to sort of judge. You shouldn’t be judging people in the 1st place, but to judge people based on. You know, one conversation or one comment that they made is never going to be effective. It’s never going to be a good way of getting the right result for yourself. But you’re right, like the the the people that we see on a regular basis, whether it’s at work or in our social lives, they can have an impact on who on how we think of ourselves like. I mean comment from a bots or a mean comment from a friend can always hurt more than something that you think of these people as someone that. Knows you, or at least know knows. What you’re like and what your strengths are, and if they say something that is hurtful, that that is always damaging to your own sense of who you are and who you think you should be. So yeah, there’s a definite connection there between how we think of ourselves and how we interact with people around us can sort of have much bigger impact on us.

Mukund
When did you come to this realization, Rob?

Rob
Probably I’m 40 now and I would say 30 to 35 is a big was a big turning point for me and those those years because you have to make important decisions you have to you know, we don’t have to. But I I got. Made around 30, started doing better in my career in this kind of state you have to take things more seriously. Is basically what I’m saying. Like. Yeah, yeah. You have to take yourself more seriously as a person. When when these big life things happen, whether you’re hanging out with the wrong people or you have the wrong job, you, you start to.

Mukund
Your priority change.

Rob
Notice small moments where people around you are saying and doing things that you don’t don’t agree with and. You you say that you know there. There was a point probably about like I said about 3031 years old where I started just telling people that I don’t agree with what they’re saying. I think, you know, if you’re being rude, say you’re being rude to a waiter. I’m gonna go. You’re being. Why? Why? What are you doing? Right. There was a point in my 20s where I wouldn’t say anything. I would just be like, well, that person is.

Mukund
Right.

Rob
Rude, but I’m not going to say I’m just going to stand back and because I don’t want them to think of me as someone that is holding them back, right? I didn’t want to affect another person, sort of. Even if there were a bad, necessarily a bad person, quote, UN quote. I didn’t wanna have a negative impact on them, but now it’s more about, for me at least, my identity is tied up in trying to do trying to do the right thing as much as possible in any situation and that that right thing might not always be it. It’s just what I think is the right thing to do. It might not always be the right thing to do. But it’s, yeah, I think it’s just. Growing and realizing that the actions that you take and the words that you say can influence people in a positive way, and I think. That, that, that influence carries to to various parts of your life. And I think you can become stronger or bigger or whatever it is as a person by sort of connecting with your inner self and sort of making that a part of your day-to-day life and sort of reaffirming that in your actions as well. I would say there’s not been 11 big event that I can. Think of that determined who I am. Now or you know the.

Mukund
It’s kind of a series of events.

Rob
Yeah. It’s just it’s it’s, it’s that realization of like the things that I’m doing like going out to bars and doing things. Although day-to-day, that’s fun. It’s it’s fun, exciting stuff. It’s, you know, you can go out and meet people and do that. Thing and that’s. Great for for many people that enjoy doing that, it just becomes. It was never who I am and it it becomes about. What do you enjoy? First of all, what? What are you having fun on a daily basis? If you’re not having fun, why and?

Mukund
Right, right.

Rob
Then taking steps to start enjoying yourself more and to start being your authentic self and whatever that is and you know, hopefully that’s a a good, a good person or a good thing positive thing. But yeah, trying to be as authentic as possible as I got older was more more about. Just saying what it was in my brain and and using that to sort of help in any situation.

Mukund
So one of the things I mentioned was in terms of talking to people and calling them out on their on their bad behavior.

Rob
Yeah. And that’s not necessarily something that I would do on a regular basis, but you know, when I see it, I try to call it out more now than.

Mukund
I would do when I was younger, I was doing the same thing. I have also started doing that. My thinking is if they can be rude. I can be the same to them because honestly, we are all old enough to understand how to behave in a society. So especially even if they are close friends, your childhood friends, if they are necessarily rude to you or any of your, you know, even if you go to a restaurant, if they route to somebody else. You we are at an age where we can understand at least you know hope that we understand the difference between fun and ********. So if they unnecessarily route to somebody else, you can call them out on it. It’s it’s no fun if you’re going to get into a fight somewhere or argument, you know, you just ruining the evening. Why do that? Mostly I’ll just extricate myself from there. I’ll just make an excuse. Leave just because the the evening is ruined for. Me already person. If something that happens mentally, I can’t be there anymore with the same mindset as how I entered that event, so I’ll just move myself and just go home, ruminate over this, mumble over it, and just, you know, and just end my day.

Rob
And I think that you speaking out also when people see that they go hang on a second, I can we can do that that that’s something we can do. We can just call that person out for being rude or being an idiot. OK, cool. Great.

Mukund
So people will be like if they come to me, they, hey, why are you starting a fight us like, if you just go back a couple of minutes. If you just rewind the events in your mind, you’ll see who started this. Yeah, right. Me putting an end is not doesn’t make me a bad person. Me putting an end made me the person who put an end to this, or rather, call them out on the ********. If you’re going to call me or on this, then that’s fine. Then maybe you are not as mature enough as. I thought you.

Rob
Were right and that that’s exactly what I’m talking about when I say my mindset changed, like it could be any environment, it could be like a dinner. Body it could be anything. I I it used to be. I think part of it is it’s so much easier to not say anything. It’s like, you know, you’re tired, you know, you’ve worked all day. You just wanna sit and have a glass of wine and then someone says something. Offensive for no reason. And then you’re just like, it’s so much easier not to say anything. Everyone’s just sitting there thinking like, oh, God, this person’s an idiot. But I don’t want to be the one to say anything. I I have. There’s nothing I can’t stop myself from saying something there. I have to be the person that, like, hang on a second. First of all, that’s nonsense. Secondly, you shouldn’t be saying that kind of like it it.

Mukund
You’re right.

Rob
There can be a point where there are things that you can debate. I’m not talking about a debatable set. I’m not about politics or anything like that. I’m talking about someone says something that is offense, like actually offensive or rude, you know, they insult someone for no reason. Who hasn’t done anything to them. And talking about just picking on people or whatever it is. More like I’m more likely to tell them now than I was when I was young. Yeah, like you said, you become tired of BS. You become tired of accepting nonsense. Like I don’t have time to accept another. Like, if you’re being rude or whatever, I don’t have time to sort of listen to that or see that I want to stop it. Everyone else can enjoy them at that time. Like, I think that’s just a function of getting older and just giving it.

Mukund
Yeah, definitely.

Rob
Less about those kind of things because obviously like you said, the person that’s being rude doesn’t care about anyone else around them. They don’t they they already, they’ve given up on that idea of caring about anyone else. So for you to be rude back is really not being rude at all. It’s. Just giving them back their energy that they are putting out and stopping it from happening again.

Mukund
Hopefully, and this kind of goes back to identity. Because you are forming a new social identity for yourself by either doing this or not. Doing this. This is kind of identity the identity to your identity rather just because of who you are. Personality wise, there’s no reason for you not to do this or do this. It all depends on the situation. On what you feel is socially right at that point, I think this plays a lot into who you are and who you would like to be. And this can happen once in your lifetime and you keep quiet for all that matters. Or, you know, maybe your social circle is so rowdy that you know you have to be the be the kind of gatekeeper every time. It all depends on the situation, the circumstance, the people you are. With again, that’s just my personal thought on this.

Rob
Yeah, 100%. And I think that that. As we were talking about. In terms of trying to influence people around you in a positive way that can actually help. Improve your own mental well-being because a lot of the time I was for me personally, I can speak about how I was feeling when I wasn’t saying anything when people were being rude. Whether it’s people that I knew or people that I didn’t know. I, as you said before, it affects your evening, it affects your mental state. You get angry that you’re not doing anything. You get angry at yourself for not saying or. Doing anything? And obviously when that is directed inward, it can affect your own mental state and it can affect it, obviously affecting and most people most forward thinking. People are thinking similarly to you. If someone is being rude around you, most people are thinking why won’t that person shut up? Why is nobody saying everyone’s thinking the same thing, but people are, for whatever reason, polite, afraid of saying something and afraid of being embarrassed?

Mukund
Actually, it’s the tolerance part of it. People are tolerant of it, which is kind of.

Rob
You’re right, yeah.

Mukund
Of encourages bad behavior.

Rob
Yeah, like I think there’s a there’s a. There’s different elements to it, right? You know, you don’t want to like, like you said, someone that comes in five seconds after you say something could think that you are. Then the person that has created a problem, but really you’re responding to a problem. So there is the idea of, like, I don’t want to be. Seen as someone that’s. Affecting everybody around me, right?

Mukund
Now in my mind, if I’m doing the right thing, I don’t have to answer to anybody else. I’m not saying break break laws or anything, but you know, so I’m. I’m.

Rob
Yeah, yeah. I’m yeah, I’m trying to get there.

Mukund
I’m not saying go be Batman and beat up the beat up the bad guys. I’m not saying that it’s all non violent, verbal kind of socially acceptable language is what I’m trying to I’m I’m trying to say so.

Rob
I don’t think I could be Batman because I. Don’t see very well in the dark. I would. I would be tripping over stuff if.

Mukund
I was talking about, hey, Batman, you should be having those special gadgets to help you see in the dark. Right? Like. Bad vision or something?

Rob
Yeah, yeah, I can’t use echo location like like that. Yeah. No, I. Yeah, that I don’t. I think Gotham City would be far more crime ridden if I was Batman. I.

Mukund
Think would be you’d be you’d be causing problem.

Rob
A huge problem. Yeah, I think there’ll be more people like trying. To pick me up from being tripping over things. And yeah, there be a huge crime wave in Gotham City if I was. Batman and.

Mukund
Actually actually. You’re gonna hit me for this, but there’s a Seinfeld connection to this. Yeah, it in one of his stand up. You know, the the opening scenes. He talks about Superman, how people complain. Be like, hey, you just broke through the door. But I rent here I need. To pay for. That. Yeah, right. You know, you need to, you know, so we don’t really care about the damage they cause. You know they they’re talking about the big picture, but you know, yeah, for paying normal people, you just rolled through the wall I rent here. I need to pay that. Who’s going to pay me for that kind of thing?

Rob
I’m starting to identify with Jerry Seinfeld more and more in terms of, like, just that, well, actually more so with Larry David in terms of how he. Interacts with people.

Mukund
He’s a genius, honestly.

Rob
Larry David is. An absolute genius. He’s a he’s a Mozart, Beethoven, level genius. And I think in 100 years people will realize that, but yeah. Just that level of I don’t care. I I’m going to say whatever it is, whether it’s a kid being rude, a thing or whatever, like, whatever is happening in the curb, your enthusiasm that Larry David doesn’t like, he’s, I’m. I’m getting there to be that grouchy old guy that just.

Mukund
The funny thing is, I don’t think he’s putting on. Act. I think he really is. Like that there is. A personality like that about him.

Rob
And and you need that acceptance for people around you. It’s to sort of go. OK, that’s just him being him. And I’m sure people around. Me are like. You have to have some some level of not necessarily understanding, but yeah, acceptance is probably the right word. Like everybody has their negative elements to them, right? And they have to have that level of. People just sort. Of putting up with a lot of your work, so let’s put it that way.

Mukund
This can be a good pivot because. It’s checking the boxes. Identity is lie. David has very good identity of who he is and who he’s not. The reason is one of us. I think it was an interview on one of the. Late night shows. He does not travel to attend weddings. That’s further than how much he can drive maybe an hour. Right. He’s not going to fly to a wedding in New York all the way from. LA, For example, and he, he has said this right? He’s like, what’s your furthest you can do? Well, maybe an hour driving distance, right? Yeah. That so people know what type of. Invite tea or a guest. He’s going. To be #1.

Rob
He’s setting literal boundaries.

Mukund
I think I think that’s an identity that everybody can take from him in terms of setting boundaries, what the limitations are. And I think in the name of social norm and social niceties and social etiquette. People are misplaced in accommodating schedules and needs. Larry writer comes and says 2 hours. That’s it. Max. I can’t. I can’t. I can’t. You know I can’t do this more. And that which is actually good refreshing because everybody can plan around that and nobody’s going to mistake him for, like, leaving after two hours.

Rob
Yeah, cause cause that’s him. Like, that’s exactly like how how it should be it just it’s almost like it’s like when you tell people you have to do a thing in two hours. But you know, I’m I I can have coffee. I can do whatever I can just play this sport with you two out but that’s it like setting a hard boundary is. Is crucial. I think most people that know me aren’t gonna invite me to a party that starts at like, midnight. I have a lot of friends that have these. They have these parties that you know they’re doing whatever they’re drinking, they’re playing games and they’ll you’ll start the party at 11 in the evening. Ten, 11:00 we’re in our 40s, so there is a mindset of we’re just going to have fun and we’re going to do this and that that these are not, you know, I used to be a different guy like I used to be able to be out till 2-3 in the morning, you know, doing whatever and I have done that recently like earlier this year. I went out and I came back at like 2:00. I went out. First of all, I went out for a drink with my dad. We go to the bar, we have a drink, we talk sports. And then I ended up meeting another my friend. My dad left, and A and a friend came. And you know you you’re talking and all of a sudden it’s like the early morning. But the next day or the next three days are. A write off at. That point for our age like. It it started to affect my work schedule. This is a Friday night and I I was done for Saturday and Sunday. By Monday I was still recovering. I had. I had a meeting on Monday more that Monday morning and I’d be like I had. I I went out on Friday night, so I’m not. Feeling great and then? Like that’s two days ago. It’s it’s interesting how. Your circumstance can inform your identity like you’re the age. You are the things that are happening around you can inform the decisions that you make and can change who you are as a person at that point and and you’re right. Like when we’re our 20s, we don’t really and teen teen years. We don’t really think we’re ready to intervene in those conversations. To do the do the hard thing, but once you get to it, it’s a combination of. I don’t care about what this person thinks of me, and also I don’t have the time to waste to listen to this person I’m in my I’m I’m in my phone like I have a thing to do. I have a a three hour window where I wanna have fun with my friends or my family. I don’t have time to listen to this nonsense.

Mukund
Great. Great. So taking it a step further right in terms of identity? I know, kind of we. On the we looked at it on the lighter side of things, but getting into the more serious or rather something you need to pay attention to is the non fulfillment of your identity. You’re not able to pinpoint who you are either professionally or personally or personality wise. Because this is something everybody goes through, maybe in a different flavor for each of us, the unfulfillment of what you want to.

Rob
Yeah, 100%. It’s it’s like I I was, I think I was saying before it’s the the disconnect between your actions and how you think of yourself and that’s that’s what I’m talking about in terms of if you don’t act in the way that you think about yourself, the way that you’ve been brought up or the way that we’re educated. If you don’t achieve what you want to do, or whether it’s a relationship or a work thing that can, then. Of a scale of negative effects, like a series of negative effects after that because you don’t feel as if you’ve you’ve met your own standards, so you start to sort of think about yourself in a more negative way and then maybe you. Then you start changing how you act around people based on that, because your your own identity has changed your own way of thinking about yourself as changed, so you then don’t need to do the. You don’t need to be that person anymore because that has changed. You don’t need to be the positive person or the helpful person because. The work circumstance or the relationship circumstance, whatever it is, has changed how you think about yourself. You then start to think of yourself as a bad person or as this person. That has nothing to offer. Whatever it is you’ve been told that your work isn’t good enough. You’ve. Been told that. You know you’ve had an issue with your wife or your husband. Told you know that you are not worthy. Of a relationship or whatever it. Is that then affect? How you think of your ability to attract someone else or to get another job, or to achieve what you thought you were gonna achieve? And that obviously is gonna have negative connotations going forward. It’s going to change how you interact with people because you expect and expectations are a big thing, right? Expectations of other people at that point. Are reflective of your identity and of your experience, right? So if you experience these negative things when you are act as the person that you think you are, that then changes what you. Expect of other people. So I think part of not acting when I saw people being rude or people being mean to other people. When I was in my 20s was when I was in high school there were, you know, there were fights, there were people that were just, it was. It was a very sort of violent upbringing. Let’s put it that way. So I think part of that. It informs you your decisions as you grow older. You go wait a second. I don’t want to be involved in that. I don’t. Be involved in being that guy.

Mukund
Because you know what’s, you know, the other side of it, what’s going? To come up.

Rob
Yeah, I’ll. I’ll just hang back like I’ll still be a good person. I know not to be violent. I know not to be rude, but I won’t get involved when someone is being rude or being. Whereas I think when you get older you start to separate what you really what you experience when you grow up, you start to separate from that and you start to see that, you know, maybe you can still have a positive effect. I don’t have as much fear as I did when I think when I was in my late teens and early 20s at any, first of all, the memories fade, the memories of. A negative experience fade but also. You realize that maybe your fear, or maybe your ability to impact people positively, is greater than the fear that you experience. So you know, maybe that that that feeling or that compulsion to do something is stronger than the fear you had originally. Maybe that just grows over time, I don’t know.

Mukund
When you identify yourself, say, as an artist, it goes back to saying if people accept you as an artist or not. If you have strong feelings that you are an artist. You should just stick with it. It’s you whether they like you or not. It’s not. It’s not your problem. Right. So because you though just for the simple fact that you can’t control what others feel or do? If you are an artist or any other personality for that matter, it is who you are. You don’t have to convince others. It’s not your, it’s not your job to make others feel that you are who you. It stands for any any particular instance any particular. Because the other person is #1 not in a position to judge you #2 has his own her own problem to work with and #3 it does not influence your identity on their life.

Rob
Right. Do do you think?

Mukund
So it’s it’s not a solution per se, but kind of rather the approach I take. It’s it’s actually a good thing for me because not a lot of people talk to me, which is fine. Which I mean I take. It that you know as little ******** as possible. And #2, meaning I only get the most. I only get the information that I need. Everything else I just consider noise. People know who I am. People know what I’m told into and more importantly, what. I don’t. Accept, so that helps me personally, which I think people should think about. What matters to them. I followed that and I found more peace personally through this.

Rob
The peacefulness that you just mentioned is such an important part. Of what we’re talking about. To have that. Sense of comfort and sort of peace in your mind when you’re doing whatever you’re doing, whether it’s working or playing or hanging out with with loved ones, to be able to sit there in the moment and have a sense of understanding of who you are and that peacefulness is so crucial to everything we’re talking about is it comes from that piece. Comes from acting in a way that is in alignment with your identity.

Mukund
Having a baseline as to what is relevant to you and not forms the first step of this peaceful process, or rather mental peace we have been talking about mental health. I think that goes a long way in determining what is relevant to you and you. To you. And the second thing is what is expected of you? Yes, your second cousins, third wife so and so. OK, what is it that happened? I mean is she? Does she need my help? You know, it’s just kind of gossip. I’m not interested. It does not help me. It’s just unnecessary brain processing power for no real reason. Right. But if there’s something relevant, you know, I mean, she has, you know, some family tragedy that we can help with in some way or any emergency or, you know, something else. Personally, that’s happening with the family. Of course. I mean, I am. I’m invested in. That so you know again, the baseline helps. And again, it all depends on your personal situation. But that has been my go to process.

Rob
Yeah, 100% and that’s the only way. To do it. Like you’re talking about mental processing power. You’re absolutely right. These things take up so much of A. Never mind time. They take up so much mental space, you know? Yeah, we can’t. We can’t solve every problem that everybody has. Of course, we’re going to try and help. Like you said, we’re gonna try and help our family if we can try to help people, of course.

Mukund
You just get tired.

Rob
But when people just want to complain about something, or they just want to gossip about somebody it cannot fulfill out, it can’t fill our brain. We can’t use that time, use that brain power to try and talk about something that has no impact. On our day-to-day life.

Mukund
This world is full of problems, right? Yes. People who can solve it are the ones that will really help. Help us move forward as a society.

Rob
It’s so funny that you say that, because I’m always talking about that when someone comes to me with a complaint, I don’t care about the complaint. What? What is the solution to this problem? What’s like what I get what you’re saying. Great. Great problem. What is the solution? Let’s figure it out. And the quicker we do that, the better. Like, there’s no point. Pointing fingers and blaming. I don’t care. There’s a problem. Let’s fix it.

Mukund
Previously, in my in my 20s, it was hard for me to convince people that I’m not interested in gossip or just FYI. I don’t want that unless it’s for my family, my professional life, anything that affects me immediately. It took some time for people to understand at least my mindset, or at least what who I am in terms of. I’m more a solutions focused guide rather than. Just talking about the problem because that doesn’t lead us anywhere.

Rob
Yeah, I mean, I get the idea. That you want to prevent the problem from happening again. I get that understand, but I don’t care. Like I don’t care who. I don’t care who did it. I don’t care. You know who smashed the plate? Let’s clean up the plate. Who cares? Like, let’s get it cleaned up. Get the sharp things from the floor before we start pointing fingers. And you know, let’s resolve the issue that is going to cause the problem again in the future. Like let’s fix it. Another thing that I would think about is people tend to focus on things they can’t control. And this is a function. Of social media. Right, this is what social media is. It’s just people complaining about various issues, but. People spend hours of their day like going on Instagram or Facebook. I mean, it’s great like the you, you have that connection with people. But that is not gonna be beneficial long term to to anybody involved in that process, whether you’re commenting on the thing or you’re complaining about that can influence or whoever it is. People gossiping online about various topics. These people are the worst. These people are problem. It’s like, I don’t know. These people, I don’t. I want them to do well because they’re a human, but outside of. That I don’t need to know about every aspect of their life or relationship or anything. And I think once you get away from social media as much as possible, look at the outside world and see what’s going on around you, like, right, right by your house is more important than you know what’s going on on social media.

Mukund
Of course, right. Of course, 100% yeah. Your your school board elections, for example, or your community development that has more impact on your life, I believe than looking at something that’s like thousands of miles away in some other city. Not that there’s anything wrong with looking at it, but your concentration should be on what affects you need.

Rob
Yes, and and what can you impact and how can you impact the things that? Are happening like. You know, donating money to charities thousands of miles away is great, but there are things local to you that can have a greater impact on your environment, and it starts from that.

Mukund
100% I agree with that. So we kind of touched up on identity, which I think is a great topic because especially in today’s environment with you know lots of things happening. Hopefully people listening found some common themes with what we talked. Well, and also we kind of discussed on what happens if people are not satisfied with who they are from an identity point of view.

Rob
Yeah, I’m thinking of looking into even things like relationships, like beyond ourselves, things beyond ourselves. Like we just talked about our local environment, but also our local relationships, our connections to people around us and how those things. Manifest in terms of our general happiness, our general comfort, and. I think that might be.

Mukund
Well, that’s a very nice topic. Right? Right. Yeah. OK. And yeah, people might not realize the social support they might have next door, for example, rather than relying on something hundreds or thousands of miles away on the Internet.

Rob
Right. But local connections and building that connection to your local networks. I think that’s a great topic to get into because it sort of builds on what we’re talking about. Today, in terms of identity and and and branching out into the influence you’ve been have on your local area in a positive way, based on your own identity and the the benefits, both you and other people can gain from.

Mukund
So let’s pick it up next week, then hope you have a nice weekend.

Rob
You too, man. Bye for. Now bye bye.