Mukund
Hello and welcome to pedal my way podcast where we talk about anything related to cycling and fitness. I’m your host, Mukund Murali. If you’re a fan of the show, Please remember to subscribe to this podcast and follow the website paddlemyway.com. Also follow at paddle my way on Instagram to let me know of your cycling. And fitness goals.

Rob
Hey Mukund, how are you?

Mukund
Hey, Rob, how are you? Good afternoon.

Rob
Good afternoon, another podcast day.

Mukund
I know, right? What do you have in stores today?

Rob
In terms of just jumping off of what we were talking about last time we were talking a bit about identity and about the sort of personal challenges that we face and as we get older and how we will overcome those challenges and and the sort of tools and facilities that we’ve built for ourselves and I think.

Mukund
Right.

Rob
Just because. You know the time of the year it is and the fact that we’re going to be hanging out with people a little bit more. I thought I talked about community building and specifically towards as men, how we connect with one another and and sort of how we communicate and how we can communicate more effectively and some of the things that I’ve learned with communicating with my friends. And building relationships with my sort of male colleagues. Friendships, my brother and my father and things like that. And I thought that might be a a helpful jumping off point in terms of the connection to last week’s podcast where we focused more on the individual. So what do? You think about that kind of topic?

Mukund
So you’re talking more about social structure, right? Social support, support and in your social circles?

Rob
Yeah, social circles and how we communicate with one another. Communication is another is is is a thing. I think a lot of men struggle with and I I think you know we talked a little bit about stereotypes in the past but and that’s a very stereotypical sort of viewpoint of men. I think you know you see that. In the media where? And a lot of TV shows and movies where men don’t say how they’re feeling or they don’t say, you know, whatever’s on their mind. I don’t. I think that comes from somewhere. I think that’s been exaggerated a little bit. I think men are able to sort of speak about their problems and their their feelings. But I think we struggle. I certainly do with identifying. When another male friend or family member is going through something, I think we struggle really with identifying our friend and family members, sort of emotions and sort of how to engage with those emotions and help them through things.

Mukund
Understood. I think this is a very crucial part for men, especially like you said, we. Emote much? We don’t share our feelings much. It goes back to the stereotypes that you mentioned in terms of men have to be the strong, emotionally neutral person who just productive all the time, kind of a thing. What fails to come through is these are social defined norms. We didn’t go out and say that, oh, we have to be defined this particular way, I’m sure. Just because we are stronger. We are kind of more what we call bigger than our female counterparts. The assumption is. We are stronger mentally as well. It does not mean that we are iron proof bulletproof beings, right? So we are susceptible to emotional challenges, emotions. So all those things do apply to us and even outreach is big part of us. So I really I think that’s a very relevant topic.

Rob
Yeah. I wanted to sort of start by talking about a couple of situations that I’ve personally found where a friend of mine, we know each other for a long time, maybe 10-15 years. And they were. They were going through a difficult time in their relationship. I remember they we used to run together during COVID when you couldn’t go inside, you couldn’t do things we would run and we would go places together. And I could tell that they were going through something like we would always speak while we were running and beforehand while we were warming up and afterwards. And we would go for coffee. Afterwards and you know, I could always tell that they were going through something. And for the first, I would say month or two. I was sort of almost afraid to ask them what was going on and that to me I think was. I was afraid of embarrassing myself if nothing was going on. As as men I think were afraid to be embarrassed about expressing ourselves and expressing feelings to somewhat someone and saying, hey, I care about you. What’s going on? I think men men are more likely to be embarrassed about even suggesting that they care about their friends, which is insane when you think about it. It’s a. Crazy idea. And of course you care about your friends. You wouldn’t be hanging out with them if you did, but we are more reticent to sort of use that emotive language and sort of say, hey, what’s going on? So I was hanging out with this with a friend of mine and. They had just broken up with a a girlfriend and and they said that they, you know, didn’t want to talk about it. So I said, fine, that’s a very normal thing. You don’t want to talk about a difficult subject. That’s fine. I found out later that they were really struggling. They were really struggling with not going to work. They didn’t do anything else outside the houses during COVID, so you couldn’t. There wasn’t a lot of social activities going on, but they didn’t have other friends or family members. Their family lived outside the city. I found out through another friend that this person was not going to work, not taking care of themselves, was drinking at home and and doing things that were harmful to their health. That’s put it that way. So I I I reached out directly and said look, I understand that you’re going through a difficult time and it’s perhaps painful to to admit that you don’t know how to deal with it, but you can deal. I believe you can deal with it. I believe you can get through whatever it is. You’re. Going through then the the following week after I’d sent that message, I texted him and sent that message and said, look, I don’t know what’s going on. Tell me what’s going on. We’ll sort it out together and then the next time we ran, he broke down in front of me before we started running and we just we didn’t go for the running. Yeah, we just went for coffee and he said it means so much that you would think about me in that way. And text me and say, look, you know, you’re you’re here for me, you like? I said, you know, call me whenever. Like, it doesn’t really matter. Like I obviously I work and I have a family and all these other things, but these things are important. And I think when you reach out to someone and say, look, I remember what you said about this thing years ago or I remember that. I remember going through this myself with the relationship and you know, you’re in pain and you don’t want to admit. But having someone else to to even just speak with, even just give voice to your feelings can. Be a huge difference. And I saw. The change in this in this friend and you know they’ve since found another relationship and they’re doing really well. They’re they’re getting married next year, but. It’s not that. Whatever I did anything but what was amazing to me was. How grateful that friend was just for that. It was a text message. It was like a A10 second message that my I couldn’t see. Hear about my friend going through that. I wanted them to know, hey, look, whatever it is you’re going through, let’s figure it out together. I am on your side. We we you can I believe you can sort it out yourself. But I’m here. Whatever you need. And I think what a lot of people are missing is that. First of all that for me it was just a a frustration of I can’t physically do anything, so I’m just going to blow it out. All my feelings in a text message and hope that this, this friend understands that and and even the text message is not the best way to do it. Like it’s better to speak face to face obviously, but. Then it was COVID and everything. Like I said in one of. But uh, I think the lesson I got from that was. Men are, in general, this is a very general statement, but are sort of starved of that feeling of someone else caring for them. I don’t know whether you can connect with that idea.

Mukund
Yes, I can. Maybe not from a solutions point of view. This was a very close friend of mine. It kind of just happened all of a sudden on the phone, talking to each other and all of a sudden he was mentioning about how he wanted to change careers. But ultimately what happened was something with. Between him and his. So that kind of manifested into a change in career and lost completely unrelated. There was no solutions I could provide because now it was kind of a personal or rather a domestic problem, right between him and his wife. Whatever I could, you know, provide some sort of sounding board on what problems he is going through. But just the thought that we opened this door to hear each other out helped him be more grounded, if, if, if, if that makes sense. He did not kind of make any or rather he he realized he was making unrealistic goals for himself. What I told him. Kind of. Made him realize the potential mistakes he might be making career wise. So those are the things that each of us can do to reach out to our close friends family. Especially between guys.

Rob
Like, have you ever been embarrassed to to sort of like, reach out to someone and say, I know you’re going through something painful? I I think that it’s more when we are younger, we sort of like we feel a bit more. We’re not ready to sort of we want to help people. We want to help our friends, obviously, but we’re almost afraid to say I think you need help. It’s almost as if you you you personally get embarrassed. To me at least. I personally get embarrassed and then I don’t wanna tell someone that they need help. I don’t want to say I think you need this, but this is.

Mukund
I don’t assume that a person is in is in need of help, but what I do give is unsolicited advice, just a general right? Exactly. I don’t go around and say for example, I don’t say Rob, you know, I think you need to do this to make your life better.

Rob
Your two friends.

Mukund
I don’t do that.

Rob
In terms of problem solution, I think the overarching problem that I think a lot of guys have in their friendships and their relationships with their male family members is a lack of communication or lack of effective communication, a lack of like you’re doing an activity with like someone that you’ve known for this amount of time and you’re thinking.

Mukund
Right, right.

Rob
I’m I think they’re going through something. But I’m not gonna say I think you’re going through something. I’m gonna sort of wait for you to get there and then reach out to me. And I think what women are far better at than men is sort of going to their friends. Hey, what’s going on? Like you did this thing? That’s strange. That’s different. Like what? I’m like, I see that with female friendship and female friendships that I have. Like they they will reach out to me as soon as they think anything is slightly different, they’ll say like, oh, that was a weird thing you said what was going on there, like any sort of small change. They will not only notice it, but call it. Out and respond and engage in. Sort of like. Problem solving of it straight away rather than waiting it out and seeing what transpires. And I think we can sort of benefit from that idea as men. I think we can sort of reach out to our friends and family members more. And you you see the difference. It makes a lot of the time with my friend in particular, it was really night and day between going for a run the previous week. And him being non, we weren’t speaking. There was nothing going on like one word. Answers to our conversation and he was a completely different guy. And then the next week. He was like. Very open and more conversational about putting to words what he was feeling. I think he felt safer in that. He felt like there was someone there that was going. I care about you anyway. Whatever you’re going through, I’m gonna listen and try and help you. So, yeah, I think in terms of a solution, I think it’s reach out to your friends and family. And if you notice something, just say hey, it might be nothing. You know, it might be. Me just noticing what’s going on with people and and trying to help them reach out.

Mukund
So in terms of identifying or rather going reaching out to somebody, I don’t ask. Hey, what’s wrong? I tried to frame it as is. Everything OK? You don’t see me in normal self. Yes it it might just be. A bad day. And I just don’t assume anything, just a courtesy check. Be like, hey, man, are you doing OK? You know, you don’t seem yourself. The last time we met. Your voice sounds different when you picked up the phone. Is everything OK? Kind of thing 99% of the times. Hey, I’m fine. You know, nothing changed. One or two times when it happened, there was an underlying problem. It’s better for them to come to you, or rather be willing for you to hear them. Now. It goes both ways, and it’s not just me. I think all guys, most of us anyways, they want to solve their own problems.

Rob
Ohh yeah, I I I’m the worst for asking for help. I don’t ask for directions, I’d rather be, you know, lost in the middle of the city than ask for directions. You know, you could be a tour guide for that city and I still won’t ask for directions. I’ll try to figure out myself. I I, I I don’t know whether it’s an ego thing or what it is, but it’s just the way my brain works. And I’m sure a lot of guys are similar.

Mukund
At least for me, it’s an ego thing. Directions wise, I would rather not waste the extra half hour one hour to getting so I I get out of the car, go somewhere and ask, ask for directions. That’s me.

Rob
I’ll be there two months. Later trying to figure it out.

Mukund
But in general, we are not known to approach seeking help for something that’s bothering us, right? The point of this podcast, what we’re trying to do is. At least bring this topic out just so that others can find some sort of support structure. And what we are sharing kind of work for us reaching out and talking to your friends is one of the best things you can do #1 to keep in touch. As we get older, our friend circle keeps getting smaller for various reasons. And you know this. Rob and #2 is even the people you’re close with. You want to see them the best they can be, especially people you’ve grown up with. You know how they are in various stages of life, you want to see the best of everybody.

Rob
Yes, 100%.

Mukund
These things help as we keep getting older because every little thing helps and I consider these as little things saying, meaning it doesn’t take much effort to pick up the phone and you know, just a couple of minutes. Hey, man, how are you? Long time. How you been kind of a thing?

Rob
Yes. And it’s it’s never been easier. We have the technology. To reach out literally anyone in our friend group at any point on social media or by text message.

Mukund
I’ve kind of trying to reach out to people I’ve lost touch with once in a while. I just look at old photos, somebody you know catches my eye. Sure, I have not talked to them in a while. I just send a quick message saying hey, looking at old photos, I hope you’re keeping well. I remember the fun times we had. going on a trip somewhere in college, for example. Sometimes I don’t get an e-mail back, which is fine. Sometimes I get a message or an e-mail back which starts the reconnecting process. So I do that personally. It’s not a solution per say, maybe that person is going through something in his or her life. Maybe he or she is not able to reply back. I give them.

Rob
The benefit of the doubt, yeah, I’ve had this experience before, but where? Even if I. See the message and I don’t respond for a week that that message still means a lot, right? It still means something when you see it and you read it like someone is out. Someone has thought about you and and. Has reached out to you deliberately spent some time to speak to you. That still means something. So I would say yeah, don’t expect be sort of outcome independent about it. Just do it because you think it’s the right thing to do when you’re thinking about that person you care.

Mukund
Whenever I’m planning a trip, I try to see who in my contact list is there. Just a cup of coffee just to reconnect. I’m sure we have people distributed across the world. If somebody is not near you. If by chance you take one of these trips where you have a, you have a contact, you know you can you can reach out to them, reconnect. If they don’t want to reconnect, that’s fine. You know, you don’t lose anything.

Rob
That that’s why it’s all about being come out outcome independent. You have to sort of separate your ego from that process, right?

Mukund
And also expectations. As I keep getting older and as I keep reevaluating myself for rather my priorities in life where the relationships that I’ve had. I know that. I was not the best of friends at certain times, and some friends who I thought were friends were not really friends. So everybody goes through this. Everybody has had disappointing relationships, especially guys because we are not very clear on what you want to say. OK. Not knowing what I what wrong I did. People have just cut off relationships, so those things have happened too. I don’t blame myself for this just because I don’t know the reason why they cut off, but that does not take anything away from what I said in terms of reaching out to connect with somebody.

Rob
Yeah, you might not get an answer back. As we’ve said, you might not get or you might not get what you want back. From them.

Mukund
Exactly, yeah.

Rob
You’re you’re doing it. At least when I try to reach out, I’m trying to do. It in the sense of. Even if you see the message and briefly you go. Oh this this. Person cares about me, but you don’t. Whether you want to speak to me or not because I have to do it in a way where it means more to them than it does to me. Like I’m trying to do that and I’m trying to do it in a way where I I try to leave my ego out of it. Whether they respond or not. They care or not that I’ve texted them or called them. It has a benefit to them, however minuscule, that benefit is. I always think as long as it’s someone that I know and someone that I’ve met before, if they if they text me or call me, I’ll always try to respond and try to sort of communicate with them. And I it always means something, right. It’s always valuable to have that connection. So yeah, so the the benefit is is really just. Helping them know that you’re. Available if if you want they want to talk.

Mukund
Reaching out. This for especially for people in trouble, or rather, if you’re thinking going through something. Reach out to your best friend. There are various ways for you to seek help. It doesn’t make you less of a guy. It doesn’t make you less of a man, rather makes you stronger. Just because you can seek help and come back stronger from this, the last thing you would expect is for you to call. Them having a ready made answer you implementing that answer or solution, your life turning 180° the other way. You never know. Yeah. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Prepare for the worst that you can think of that can realistically happen and hope for the best. That’s all we can do. Same thing happens. Relationships. So you pick up a phone if the other person is willing and able to talk to you, that’s the best. What happened? Yes, and have not had much failure following that if if that.

Rob
Yeah, 100%. No, it’s a. It’s a great message and a great idea.

Mukund
Makes sense so.

Rob
To get along and. I think it’s the perfect sort of time of year. We’re we’re we’re in this, I’m going across the holidays where people you know as they get older, they have fewer people to celebrate with, to celebrate these sort of milestones with we’re entering into the Christmas season. Into New Year’s, you know? New Year’s parties. Everyone socializing.

Mukund
Actually this can be a. This can be a good newer resolution for people thinking about, you know, personal connects, you know changing themselves or improving themselves. Again, no, no judgments on what people want to do. Just a suggestion that, you know, maybe you reach out to that one person you’ve been trying to reach out to for the past so many months or so many years make the three connect.

Rob
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It’s the perfect time to sort of reanalyze or refocus how you communicate and how you think. Well, your your close friendships and the people around you and sort of think about the tangible benefit, even just a a minor text message or like a 32nd call can have with someone that you really care about. It’s it’s again like for me the the difference when I saw my friends face and just like that change from one week to the next was really quite powerful to.

Mukund
Exactly, yeah.

Rob
Me in it. It really it changed how I communicate completely with my friends. So yeah, if you just, you know if you could take anything from from what we’re talking about today, it’s just to sort of reach out to people and make sure that you are. Aware of what people are going through and sort of if finding out if you can help people like find out if you can do something for someone else and. You’ll be surprised, I say. Well, I I I think his men were always sort of surprised when we find out someone like, actually is thinking about. It’s weird, weird idea, as you may think about it. Like, you’re surprised when someone cares about. Of course they care about you that they’re around you and they’re in your life. Of course they care about you. But I think we are sort of. Not trained, but sort of like we have.

Mukund
Actually, we actually we put up some walls, right just for to avoid the disappointment. I’ve trained myself to start taking down the walls, hoping for the best. So bring down the wall is only going to validate my assumptions and making common sense decisions is going to help you in relationships. If you really don’t get along with somebody, you obviously should not reach out to that person. Right? And.

Rob
Exactly. If you care about them, reach out exactly.

Mukund
I’m also for or rather, I have asked forgiveness. If you still value the relationship, you should also be ready to ask for forgiveness if that’s your fault. I mean, I hope people will kind of take something away from this even one or two points.

Rob
Sorry, just to just to go back to what you were talking about in terms of putting yourself in a position. Where you can help people. This is sort of what we’ve talked about in the previous podcast, but when you’re. Taking care of your physical fitness, you’re taking care of your own mental health. The idea is not just to benefit you. It’s so that you can be in a position, then to go like. I’m feeling good. I’m feeling I’m. I’m progressing in my goals now. What I can do is connect that, connect that feeling with helping other people build, build themselves up. I think there’s a big trend now. Sort of men’s health to sort of like. Become, you know, more muscular, bigger dudes like building up their bodies and building up their health. And it it’s great to to build your health and to sort of increase your understanding of your body and things like that. And I think part of what’s missing of that is the mental health side of why you are protecting your own physical body.

Rob
The idea is once you have that, once you have your own. Sense of comfort in your physical goals. You can sort of help other people reach theirs, and I think that is one of the huge benefits of doing that for men in general. Because I think a lot of guys really want to help their friends and families through things we just don’t have the tools or the communication ideas to know how to reach out and say. Hey I want to help you with this. I think you’re going through this, and if you’re not, I don’t know, but I. Want to help? You the tools are maybe a text message and a cup of coffee like the the tools are not complicated in terms of helping people having a.

Mukund
I think this topic is very relevant, especially number one is the holiday season. A lot of people will be meeting a lot of relationships will be made, so hopefully people take something from this.

Rob
I’ve got a few friends who have birthdays in December coming up that I’m going to reach out to, I think is the perfect time to sort of like, you know, we might not have spoken for a year or so. Everyone’s busy with work and families and things, and I think it’s just it’s time to check in and sort of make sure that you’re doing everything you can. Basically, that’s the message I would say, just make sure you’re doing everything you can and there are some people that don’t want you to help. And that’s. OK. You’ve just mentioned this actually and I don’t want to go off on another tangent. So we just talked about how you you felt you were an ******* like when you were younger. And I I felt like that too. It might just be you said the wrong thing or you did the wrong thing and you thought you were doing the right. What what I think happens is when you have people that find you, find out later thought you were an *******. I’ve had that. Where? Someone who just met me thought I was an *******. Well, I thought, like, oh, all I did was say, oh, don’t worry about that. I’ll. I’ll get your Bob or whatever it is and that, that for some people that’s an ******* move. And that’s their right. To to think that, but. You you sort of like you do. You do things with the intention of it being a good thing, and then you become the ******* part of what I’m trying to do is sort of realize when I was the ******* before and then say to people, hey, I know I was an *******. That’s a big thing too. When a guy comes to me and says sorry, I was an *******. That means a lot too. Right. That’s a huge thing for. It’s because we don’t always admit when we were being just treating people badly, we just we we knew we were, we realized it ourselves. We just don’t say anything. Another part of reaching out is if you do have someone that you’re afraid of reaching out to because they thought you were an ******* or you did think tell them. Hey I realize now I screwed up. It might not mean anything to you, but hey, it means something. I I in my brain. I know now that this was the wrong thing to say or do or whatever I did. And then that might mean something. I know it has meant something to me. When someone has done that for me. So that’s just something that. I think could be helpful too.

Mukund
Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. So kind of reevaluate what you did in the past. If you want to change that going forward, maybe with that particular person or maybe with a group of friends? And maybe not repeat it. OK, not going forward. So have a cleaner kind of relationship going forward maybe so.

Rob
For me? Yeah, personally, it’s just don’t drink 12 guinnesses and give advice.

Mukund
True. True. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Rob
Just just my general summary of of my. What I treated people badly is it was mostly after drinking too much and saying things. That I thought were honest. They, but they maybe were not received in the way that I thought they. Were being received. Let let me explain what’s wrong with your wife. That that never goes well. Just leave family out of it if you are going to have. Personal conversations.

Mukund
Right. Actually, first watch what you drink, but that’s a complete different conversation. So.

Rob
Ohh yeah by the. Way I am I cannot give. Advice on that I have to work on. Myself first on that.

Mukund
That is funny. 
So Rob, it’s been great talking to you again today. And we will pick it up next week.

Rob
Sounds good. Sounds good. It’s really been really a good conversation and I’m hoping. Hoping some good things are gonna come from it over the holiday season. I think it’s a good time to reconnect and. It’s been great speaking, you know.

Mukund
And to the listeners, if you want to reach out to us, @pedalmyway on Instagram, it’s a good way to reach out to us. So if you have any thoughts you can want to share, please go ahead. So Rob till next time.

Rob
Bye for now.